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Wait staff, tipping, and Minimum Wage

Should Tipping be figured into a wait staff wage?


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Chiefgator

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So, the "living wage" thread and the "minimum wage" thread brought to mind an old annoyance...

I think it is absurd that Wait Staff has a different Minimum Wage.
I feel that tips should be extra, not expected.


If you have a great hostess, then the business owner should be the one paying her instead of me. We have become so accustomed to the Tip are Wages that we just go with it and pay the extra 20%. I am a heavy tipper as I know that is how they get paid. I have worked for "tips only", so I understand. BUT.... I feel it is the managers job to pay the staff accordingly, not the client.
 
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So, the "living wage" thread and the "minimum wage" thread brought to mind an old annoyance...

I think it is absurd that Wait Staff has a different Minimum Wage.
I feel that tips should be extra, not expected.


If you have a great hostess, then the business owner should be the one paying her instead of me. We have become so accustomed to the Tip are Wages that we just go with it and pay the extra 20%. I am a heavy tipper as I know that is how they get paid. I have worked for "tips only", so I understand. BUT.... I feel it is the managers job to pay the staff accordingly, not the client.

I would support their having the same minimum wage as everyone else. But, tell you right now, I would still tip 15-20% on my check.

Restaurant owners who think anyone can waitress are the ones that go out of business. Waiting tables takes training, talent and skill. That we've gotten into this situation where they make $3/hour or whatever and depend on tips just means that they haven't been valued, in my opinion.

Restaurant Owners take note: Your waitstaff is the face of your restaurant. It doesn't just take a warm body to successfully wait tables. It's hard work. It requires excellent time management skills. And it takes someone who has real motivation to put the customer first.
 
Have to say, when I was working for tips I liked having a low salary. Kept the IRS off my tail and pretty much made me judgement proof. Of course back then none of the places tracked tip income and the IRS didn't step up to take an automatic piece whether you are tipped or not.
 
I would support their having the same minimum wage as everyone else. But, tell you right now, I would still tip 15-20% on my check.

Restaurant owners who think anyone can waitress are the ones that go out of business. Waiting tables takes training, talent and skill. That we've gotten into this situation where they make $3/hour or whatever and depend on tips just means that they haven't been valued, in my opinion.

Restaurant Owners take note: Your waitstaff is the face of your restaurant. It doesn't just take a warm body to successfully wait tables. It's hard work. It requires excellent time management skills. And it takes someone who has real motivation to put the customer first.

Howdy Maggie! :2wave:

We are on the same exact page. I am fine with an unskilled person getting an unskilled wage, but your wait staff can make or break a business. It is certainly a skill that is improved upon with experience.
 
I worked my way up into fine dining... top restaurants in LA and Napa. Food Servers are skilled at what they do. I loved having a low wage and making tips. If people stopped tipping, or tipped lower, then you would see a decline in the servers. There is not way I would have memorized every ingredient in every dish, knew about all the different vintages of wines from basically every winery in CA, used my excellent communication skills, put up with arrogant chefs who scream at you practically nightly, put up with stuck up celebrities and athletes, etc. for a bigger pay check and smaller tips. There is no way that the clientele of fine dining want that either... when they go to Denny's they expect that quality of food server... when you are spending $100-$1,000 on a bottle of wine and $40 bucks on your main course, etc. You want the best.
 
There is no discernible prevailing way of handling that in my area. It screws women who spend a lot of their lives waitressing though because they have no SS paid in.
 
I would support their having the same minimum wage as everyone else. But, tell you right now, I would still tip 15-20% on my check.

Restaurant owners who think anyone can waitress are the ones that go out of business. Waiting tables takes training, talent and skill. That we've gotten into this situation where they make $3/hour or whatever and depend on tips just means that they haven't been valued, in my opinion.

Restaurant Owners take note: Your waitstaff is the face of your restaurant. It doesn't just take a warm body to successfully wait tables. It's hard work. It requires excellent time management skills. And it takes someone who has real motivation to put the customer first.

I agree. I tip 20% pretty much no matter what, whether the service is bare bones mediocre or exceptional. Sometimes I'll go to 25% or 30% if it's exceptional. But I don't really like that feeling where in my opinion the server didn't really earn the tip but I feel I should just tip 20% anyway (and so that's what I do).

I can see both sides of this. If there are high-volume servers making 15-20% of all the money coming in to a pricey restaurant, they have the potential to be making significantly more than minimum wage in some cases, and in those cases, who cares about the hourly wage?
 
So, the "living wage" thread and the "minimum wage" thread brought to mind an old annoyance...

I think it is absurd that Wait Staff has a different Minimum Wage.
I feel that tips should be extra, not expected.


If you have a great hostess, then the business owner should be the one paying her instead of me. We have become so accustomed to the Tip are Wages that we just go with it and pay the extra 20%. I am a heavy tipper as I know that is how they get paid. I have worked for "tips only", so I understand. BUT.... I feel it is the managers job to pay the staff accordingly, not the client.

I dont think that it should be configured into their wages because A. a lot of people don't tip, and B. It creates an excuse for the employers to pay less than minumem wage. Minimum wage exists for a reason and it should be illegal in every occupation to be paid less.
 
If we changed it, we'd be more adopting the pay system in other countries where tips are basically non-existant (except from American tourists). A lot of countries are like that. They don't see a reason that waits should have to have a portion of their pay decided individually at the customer level. I don't know how it ends up working out. My guess would be that if we switched to this kind of a pay system, waits would get a huge boost for a short while, while everyone got used to the idea of not tipping, then they'd end up at somewhere around the same rate.


Just a guess, though.
 
If we changed it, we'd be more adopting the pay system in other countries where tips are basically non-existant (except from American tourists). A lot of countries are like that. They don't see a reason that waits should have to have a portion of their pay decided individually at the customer level. I don't know how it ends up working out. My guess would be that if we switched to this kind of a pay system, waits would get a huge boost for a short while, while everyone got used to the idea of not tipping, then they'd end up at somewhere around the same rate.

Just a guess, though.

And what is the motivation for waitstaff to hussle? To check on their food in the kitchen? To come back to see if they want coffee refills? Another drink? Fill their water glass? Why would they encourage people to have dessert? An after-dinner drink? Without tips? Say good-bye to good service. Guaranteed.

I was at Calloway Gardens years ago -- at that time, they didn't encourage tipping. They put 15% on everyone's bill. The waitstaff didn't get it. But most diners didn't realize that. When I questioned management about the 15%, they said, in effect, "We use the 15% to help pay their benefits." Crappiest service I ever saw in my life.
 
If you spend enough time in the United States (either visiting or living here), it is reasonable to expect you to know that the staff who provide sit-down and bar services are living off their tips. Knowing this, you also know that any position you adopt is nothing more than rationalizing taking food out of a perfect stranger's mouth. To allow someone to serve you, knowing that the custom is that you compensate them for good service, and then walk off without leaving just compensation is theft.

That said, my understanding is that waitstaff in Europe are paid an actual wage, do not expect tips, and (gasp!) do their job anyway.

I would much prefer that waitstaff made a reasonable wage and considered tips both a nice surprise and a sign that the customer was supremely satisfied. It'd be sort of like taking the manager aside to sing their praises, only they get a little bonus instead.
 
A tip is a gift not a wage. Does anyone else get their wage reduced if their parents give them 20 dollars a week for gas money?
 
Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington do not allow tip credit. Otherwise, if the job normally receives tips, and the employee receives more than $30/month, then the employer can pay less than minimum wage, BUT still must guarantee the employee receives at least min wage. So at regular min wage of $7.25/hour, for someone working 30 hours/week at $2.13/hour tipped min wage they are paid $63.90 for the week. If they do not make $153.60 in tips for the week (the min wage would be ($217.50), the employer must make up the difference.

So tipped workers are still guaranteed at least minimum wage.
 
And what is the motivation for waitstaff to hussle? To check on their food in the kitchen? To come back to see if they want coffee refills? Another drink? Fill their water glass? Why would they encourage people to have dessert? An after-dinner drink? Without tips? Say good-bye to good service.

Let's be fair. Do you get tipped to do your job? If not, do you do a crap job of it because you're not getting tipped? If waits can't do a good job without the tip system, then why can anyone else?

I was at Calloway Gardens years ago -- at that time, they didn't encourage tipping. They put 15% on everyone's bill. The waitstaff didn't get it. But most diners didn't realize that. When I questioned management about the 15%, they said, in effect, "We use the 15% to help pay their benefits." Crappiest service I ever saw in my life.

That's just one isolated example. Considering that the management was directly stealing the employees tips, it's not a wonder that the employees did a poor job. If my boss were embezzling from my paycheck, I wouldn't feel particularly motivated, either. That's likely to be more about bad management than about tips.
 
I'm tipping the server, not the owner. Minimum wage should apply; tips are extra.
 
Even if they are getting tips they should still get minnum wage no matter what they are at the restaurant or establishment giving their time for in which they could be doing something with their family's . Restaurants have slow days so if not enough people come and tip accordingly they could be losing money .
 
So, the "living wage" thread and the "minimum wage" thread brought to mind an old annoyance...

I think it is absurd that Wait Staff has a different Minimum Wage.
I feel that tips should be extra, not expected.


If you have a great hostess, then the business owner should be the one paying her instead of me. We have become so accustomed to the Tip are Wages that we just go with it and pay the extra 20%. I am a heavy tipper as I know that is how they get paid. I have worked for "tips only", so I understand.
BUT.... I feel it is the managers job to pay the staff accordingly, not the client.




No one in the USA should be paid less than minimum wage.

And the minimum wage should be a lot higher than what it is.
 
I would support their having the same minimum wage as everyone else. But, tell you right now, I would still tip 15-20% on my check.

Restaurant owners who think anyone can waitress are the ones that go out of business. Waiting tables takes training, talent and skill. That we've gotten into this situation where they make $3/hour or whatever and depend on tips just means that they haven't been valued, in my opinion.

Restaurant Owners take note: Your waitstaff is the face of your restaurant. It doesn't just take a warm body to successfully wait tables. It's hard work. It requires excellent time management skills. And it takes someone who has real motivation to put the customer first.

It's VERY hard work. I did it for a couple of years and I think I was a TERRIBLE waitress. Lol!
 
Let's be fair. Do you get tipped to do your job? If not, do you do a crap job of it because you're not getting tipped? If waits can't do a good job without the tip system, then why can anyone else?

That's just one isolated example. Considering that the management was directly stealing the employees tips, it's not a wonder that the employees did a poor job. If my boss were embezzling from my paycheck, I wouldn't feel particularly motivated, either. That's likely to be more about bad management than about tips.

When's the last time you saw a postal employee hustle when the line's long? The people behind the deli counter do the same? No, the TIPS system we have for waitstaff works. The good ones make pretty good money; the bad ones make such a poor living, they either get better? Or quit.

Why do car salesmen get paid on commission? Realtors? Door-to-door salespeople? Why do some factories pay bonuses on piecework? Carpet and furniture salespeople? Tech firms? Money motivates.
 
When's the last time you saw a postal employee hustle when the line's long? The people behind the deli counter do the same? No, the TIPS system we have for waitstaff works. The good ones make pretty good money; the bad ones make such a poor living, they either get better? Or quit.

Why do car salesmen get paid on commission? Realtors? Door-to-door salespeople? Why do some factories pay bonuses on piecework? Carpet and furniture salespeople? Tech firms? Money motivates.

Do we really believe no one does a good job without these tricks? So, a teacher, a police officer, a construction worker, a cook, and truck driver, none of them, should ever be able to do a good job as no one tips them?
 
When's the last time you saw a postal employee hustle when the line's long? The people behind the deli counter do the same? No, the TIPS system we have for waitstaff works. The good ones make pretty good money; the bad ones make such a poor living, they either get better? Or quit.

Why do car salesmen get paid on commission? Realtors? Door-to-door salespeople? Why do some factories pay bonuses on piecework? Carpet and furniture salespeople? Tech firms? Money motivates.

I still made pretty good tips even though I wasn't the best or quickest waitress by any stretch. :mrgreen: Being personable and friendly goes a long way. I hated waitressing because you can't count on a set amount of money ever, so it makes budgeting very difficult, you are always rushing around, and I found that a lot of employers treat their waitstaff pretty shabby too.

Of note, in my experience, I found that a lot old people were the worst when it comes to tipping.
 
This one particular customer comes to mind. She was an older woman, blind and always told me all about her problems with her daughter and son-in-law, etc. So of course I felt sorry for her and was as nice as I could possibly be towards her. One night she comes in and orders a meal and I fetch it for her, and she's unhappy with it (she was EXTREMELY picky), so she decided she wants something else. I'm like fine and I put the order in to the chef. The next thing you know, she's asking why it's taking so long, and I have to explain that it has to be cooked first. She ended up wandering into the kitchen, and she's BLIND. This was a big NO-NO!! So who gets in trouble for it? I do. :roll: As if I can magically make the meal appear in my hands for her, or as if it's my responsibility to babysit this woman when I had other customers to wait on.

She was also a terrible tipper.
 
Do we really believe no one does a good job without these tricks? So, a teacher, a police officer, a construction worker, a cook, and truck driver, none of them, should ever be able to do a good job as no one tips them?

That was not the assertion. The assertion was that financial rewards/penalties for superior/inferior customer service work. The better job that you do the more your pay is and the worse job that you do the less your pay is when commission or TIPS is part of your pay. Obviously, jobs not involving sales or customer service cannot use the commission/TIPS system. Performance reviews are often used in place of simple time of service to allocate pay raises/bonuses, but you probably knew that.
 
Do we really believe no one does a good job without these tricks? So, a teacher, a police officer, a construction worker, a cook, and truck driver, none of them, should ever be able to do a good job as no one tips them?

Tell me why you think they do. If you "spiff" a salesperson for each maintenance contract they sell, guess what? They suddenly start selling maintenance contracts. Offer a higher commission on a product a company wants to push? Guess what? They start selling more of that product.

If extra money didn't motivate people to work harder and smarter, there'd be no commissioned jobs.

I think any job that can be monetized in that way would improve performance. If you want your head chef to cut food costs, pay him 15% of what he save. If you watch your people on the packing line and they're working at 3/4-speed, offer a cash incentive for every package they produce over the norm.

I can't believe you don't understand this concept. If I had to take a WAG, I'd say you've worked in a lot of union shops.
 
That was not the assertion. The assertion was that financial rewards/penalties for superior/inferior customer service work. The better job that you do the more your pay is and the worse job that you do the less your pay is when commission or TIPS is part of your pay. Obviously, jobs not involving sales or customer service cannot use the commission/TIPS system. Performance reviews are often used in place of simple time of service to allocate pay raises/bonuses, but you probably knew that.

Tipping is so subjective though. Some people always tip good and some people never do, regardless of the quality of the service.

Also, if people are unhappy with the food, they sometimes won't leave a good tip. That's not really fair because the wait staff doesn't prepare the meals.

When I was waitressing, I only made like $3 an hour. Some places include gratuity in the bill. What do you think of that?
 
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