View Poll Results: What is a "liveable wage"?

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  • Cold beans and a roach motel

    5 10.20%
  • Bunkin with 2-3 friends and take-out

    11 22.45%
  • Living alone in my own place, new car, new iphone

    7 14.29%
  • Who cares, I just want to soak the rich.

    1 2.04%
  • There is no such thing as "liveable wage".

    25 51.02%
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Thread: What is a "liveable wage"?

  1. #71
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    Re: What is a "liveable wage"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    No, he "pretty much" didn't. It was a bait thread. Hardly the most egregious example of a bait thread on this forum, but a bait thread nonetheless. When you put up the title "What is a liveable wage?" but really want to argue against the validity of a liveable wage altogether, that's dishonest.
    The way I see it, the thread title is just a primer. The OP is the gauge of the thread. Anyone that responds to a thread by reading only the title, and not the OP is guaranteeing failure in the thread, or at least a misguided approach to the thread. But, maybe that's just me.

    There is a good debate to be had, as to whether a livable wage is even a real thing.

  2. #72
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    Re: What is a "liveable wage"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefgator View Post
    Your two statements are contradictory. Look at it this way... If the minimum education level is raised to "Bachelors" (30k) then it won't take long before that Bachelor's degree (30k) is just like a high school diploma (12k) is now.

    I have seen it first hand. In the Navy, there are qualifications called a Warfare Designator (Air, Surface, etc) They USED to be voluntary. They were hard to get and required a lot of effort to get ESWS or EAWS (Enlisted Surface/Air Warfare Specialist) qualified. It really broke out the professionals from the guy just getting by. A few years back, they made the qualification mandatory. Now, the norm is to see Dual or even Triple qualified Sailors. You would think "Hey, Great. They are now more highly trained." But they are not. The qualifications are now easier to get and they have no impact besides a "check in the box".

    I understand that "guaranteeing access" is different than "mandating" BUT, if we suddenly have 80% of the American populace with a Bachelors Degree, then it will not be long until the only way to get a "high level" job is to have a Master's. It is already starting to be that way, and there is no doubt in my mind that the trend will continue.
    Well said.

  3. #73
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    Re: What is a "liveable wage"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Or maybe you're not well informed about "economic liberals."
    Enlighten me then. Go to the Walmart thread and tell me who is an economic conservative and who is an economic liberal.

    I'm just wondering how many of those people kicking around the term "liveable wage" are economic conservatives.

    I'll wait.

  4. #74
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    Re: What is a "liveable wage"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    I don't know, all depends on how they manage their money. I have better things to think about than your characterization of poor people who want to have a living wage as greedy mouth breathers.

    A living wage is a wage where you can afford all the necessities in life, such as food, shelter, clothing, medical care, transportation. All the things that keep you alive and the things that make it possible for you to work. It is nothing less, and nothing more. Your question is flawed because you want people to argue over what consumer items people feel they need and tying it to the argument for providing a living wage. They are not the same thing.
    Is asking for more of a definition 'characterization of poor people who want to have a living wage as greedy mouth breathers.'?

    Food:
    Steak, mac n cheese, or toast?
    Housing: One bedroom, multi-bedroom, view?
    Transportation: Used Yugo, new Malibu, Lincoln Navigator?

    The term is so vague as to leave itself open for interpretation of many degrees. The point being that 'living wage' is too subjective, and cannot properly be defined by someone receiving it.

    The next move would be to leave that interpretation up to a governing body, and other then setting a basement, the government has no business in determining wages.
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  5. #75
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    Re: What is a "liveable wage"?

    Most jobs have an intended demographic of people. Right now, that's kind of screwed up because older people are occupying entry level jobs, and entry level-ready young people can't get full-time jobs at all. That means that a lot of people are currently living on a lot less than what they built their life on, so they are going to have unique problems due to the fact that their current work prospects are out of step with the demographics those jobs are designed for.

    But ignoring that, and pretending that isn't the case, the "livable wage" mostly applies to people on the low end of the job market, since, by definition, everything above it is higher and will probably therefore being supporting a life with more unnecessary things in it, or more responsibilities related to family/self care.

    When we're talking about a "living wage," we're talking about young people without degrees who are probably single, or at least don't have kids.

    It also kind of depends on where you're living.

    In the city, a livable wage in that bracket is a flat share without having to starve. You can have stuff in a stable area, and your bills and food are paid. Space is limited and therefore expensive, so you shouldn't expect to be able to live alone, and maybe not have a car.

    In the country, stuff's cheaper and space is easier to come by, so maybe the wage is lower in sheer numbers, but maybe it's still enough for a trailer or renting a guest house, and probably having a used car, which is necessary in the country.

    A living wage means someone is able to function with the basics of stability, food, and the necessities to keep their job.

    To call a third world living a "living wage" in this kind of country is a statement that you'd like to move back to feudalism, quite frankly.

    I am sick and tired of this "but the poor have TV's" statistics. From when I was living in low-end apartments, you know what? Most of them come with a TV. A TV that's older than I am and worth 5 bucks at the most, and doesn't even get reception anymore. Yeah, it has a cable, but the cable isn't necessarily hooked up. The landlords put stuff like that in there to make the place seem less cheap. It costs them nothing. That does not mean people living there aren't poor.

    And a refrigerator? Are you serious? Most people don't have the resources to grow their own damn food. Without a fridge, and without space to make your own food, you have to give up on the best methods of getting calcium, protein, and a lot of minerals. How are they supposed to eat adequately in a populous country without a refrigerator? Are we seriously begrudging the poor means of storing food?

    Good lord.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 11-25-13 at 04:22 PM.

  6. #76
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    Re: What is a "liveable wage"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    The way I see it, the thread title is just a primer. The OP is the gauge of the thread. Anyone that responds to a thread by reading only the title, and not the OP is guaranteeing failure in the thread, or at least a misguided approach to the thread. But, maybe that's just me.

    There is a good debate to be had, as to whether a livable wage is even a real thing.
    A "primer." I like that. I think when I want to rent out part of my house and the prospective renters arrive and complain that the "cozy duplex" is in fact my garage, I'll tell them that my advertisement was a "primer."

  7. #77
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    Re: What is a "liveable wage"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Well said.
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  8. #78
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    Re: What is a "liveable wage"?

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
    Is asking for more of a definition 'characterization of poor people who want to have a living wage as greedy mouth breathers.'?

    Food:
    Steak, mac n cheese, or toast?
    Housing: One bedroom, multi-bedroom, view?
    Transportation: Used Yugo, new Malibu, Lincoln Navigator?

    The term is so vague as to leave itself open for interpretation of many degrees. The point being that 'living wage' is too subjective, and cannot properly be defined by someone receiving it.

    The next move would be to leave that interpretation up to a governing body, and other then setting a basement, the government has no business in determining wages.
    Food: Healthy food that provides the proper nutritional value that one needs to live a healthy life.
    Housing: A place where all the needs of a proper shelter are meet, and a place that is safe. IE, not going to collapse on itself, no electrical problems, etc.
    Transportation: Something that gets the job done.

    It's not that hard people. Well I guess it is if you have an agenda that forces you to view poor people as greedy mouth breathers.
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  9. #79
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    Re: What is a "liveable wage"?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I "defined" a liveable wage, however, I never said we as a country can meet that definition. To truly define liveable wage would be to take a look at everyone on a case by case basis which is frankly impossible. The closest we can come to is setting a min amount and even then it's dependent on region since states, cities, and counties vary greatly.

    Is your solution to just not help anyone?
    No, 'my solution' is giving people a starting block (already done with FMW) and give them the incentive to make more of themselves. It's called a raise or better job.

    There is no reason another person should have to pay more in the way of goods or services (the pass-through construction of a business), to support another person's perceived need of a certain 'lifestyle'.
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    Re: What is a "liveable wage"?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Most jobs have an intended demographic of people. Right now, that's kind of screwed up because older people are occupying entry level jobs, and entry level-ready young people can't get full-time jobs at all. That means that a lot of people are currently living on a lot less than what they built their life on, so they are going to have unique problems due to the fact that their current work prospects are out of step with the demographics those jobs are designed for.

    But ignoring that, and pretending that isn't the case, the "livable wage" mostly applies to people on the low end of the job market, since, by definition, everything above it is higher and will probably therefore being supporting a life with more unnecessary things in it, or more responsibilities related to family/self care.

    When we're talking about a "living wage," we're talking about young people without degrees who are probably single, or at least don't have kids.

    It also kind of depends on where you're living.

    In the city, a livable wage in that bracket is a flat share without having to starve. You can have stuff in a stable area, and your bills and food are paid. Space is limited and therefore expensive, so you shouldn't expect to be able to live alone, and maybe not have a car.

    In the country, stuff's cheaper and space is easier to come by, so maybe the wage is lower in sheer numbers, but maybe it's still enough for a trailer or renting a guest house, and probably having a used car, which is necessary in the country.

    A living wage means someone is able to function with the basics of stability, food, and the necessities to keep their job.

    To call a third world living a "living wage" in this kind of country is a statement that you'd like to move back to feudalism, quite frankly.

    I am sick and tired of this "but the poor have TV's" statistics. From when I was living in low-end apartments, you know what? Most of them come with a TV. A TV that's older than I am and worth 5 bucks at the most, and doesn't even get reception anymore. Yeah, it has a cable, but the cable isn't necessarily hooked up. The landlords put stuff like that in there to make the place seem less cheap. It costs them nothing. That does not mean people living there aren't poor.

    And a refrigerator? Are you serious? Most people don't have the resources to grow their own damn food. Without a fridge, and without space to make your own food, you have to give up on the best methods of getting calcium, protein, and a lot of minerals. How are they supposed to eat adequately in a populous country without a refrigerator? Are we seriously begrudging the poor means of storing food?

    Good lord.
    Eat me, drink me, love me;
    Laura make much of me

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