View Poll Results: What is a "liveable wage"?

Voters
49. You may not vote on this poll
  • Cold beans and a roach motel

    5 10.20%
  • Bunkin with 2-3 friends and take-out

    11 22.45%
  • Living alone in my own place, new car, new iphone

    7 14.29%
  • Who cares, I just want to soak the rich.

    1 2.04%
  • There is no such thing as "liveable wage".

    25 51.02%
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Thread: What is a "liveable wage"?

  1. #31
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    Re: What is a "liveable wage"?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    There is no set-in-stone "liveable" wage amount, however, the definition of a liveable wage would essentially be the cost for a person to pay their bills without going into more debt.

    However, what the cost for a person to do that is different with everyone. A person's habits, bills, debt, location, age, all play into it. However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to help people and like it or not, the only way to do so effectively with our population is to set a min amount. Unless of course you want to pay for an army of people to do evaluations on each person on a case by case basis all paid for by the taxpayers. I don't think you want that either.
    So the 'cost to pay their bills without going further into debt' is defined...how?

    I go around the house snapping lights off, wear a sweater because I keep the house at 72 in the winter, and someone should be able to earn a 'living wage' (which may be more then I earn) while they leave all the lights on, take hour showers and keep the house at 75?

    That definition needs a serious revamping. No one has a right to a wage they haven't earned..... don't like what you're earning, then do something to make yourself worth more.....
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  2. #32
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    Re: What is a "liveable wage"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post


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  3. #33
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    Re: What is a "liveable wage"?

    Varies, obviously. I don't need much because I make my own beer but someone in the city should probably make about 4 times the cost of housing- rent or mortgage. Household income, I mean. I'm probably one of the last generation of blue-collars who could buy a house on one income. In the city I escaped from, anyway.
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  4. #34
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    Re: What is a "liveable wage"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    I was trying to reference it basically by percentages, like "how much over MW do you think you're owed so that it can be a liveable wage", and using that to purchase all these non-necessities with that same percentile difference.
    When I was in college and single, I lived on far less than I would have made at a MW job working 40 hours a week and that included rent, food, clothes, phone, internet utilities, gas, insurance, and credit card payments for the student bookstore raping I got at least twice a year. When I lived alone, I squeaked by. When I lived with others, it was pretty liveable though not the lifestyle I aspired to permanently.

  5. #35
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    Re: What is a "liveable wage"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    I was trying to reference it basically by percentages, like "how much over MW do you think you're owed so that it can be a liveable wage", and using that to purchase all these non-necessities with that same percentile difference.
    I really don't know how to answer something like that because each location will have different necessities. For example, if you live in a town with a good public transportation system you can actually afford to mothball your car for months at a time and thus avoiding unnecessary gas and insurance costs, whereas here in Los Angeles that's really not an option. And of course some places will need indoor heating, others not so much. Etc etc.

    The problem I see with this sort of discussion is that no matter how spartan the necessity I list one can always find a way to point out an even cheaper alternative, which makes it nothing more than a race to the bottom.

  6. #36
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    Re: What is a "liveable wage"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I really don't know how to answer something like that because each location will have different necessities. For example, if you live in a town with a good public transportation system you can actually afford to mothball your car for months at a time and thus avoiding unnecessary gas and insurance costs, whereas here in Los Angeles that's really not an option. And of course some places will need indoor heating, others not so much. Etc etc.

    The problem I see with this sort of discussion is that no matter how spartan the necessity I list one can always find a way to point out an even cheaper alternative, which makes it nothing more than a race to the bottom.
    I have no problem with people making sacrifices. You don't have to be below poverty level for that.

    My problem is that people seem to resent Big Business because they drive a Toyota instead of a Lexus, or eat a Whopper instead of a steak, or have to play the classic Zeldas on a SNES instead of the latest version of Wind Waker on the newest Nintendo out to date.

    It's the entitlement issue - everyone wants to blame someone else for their lot in life, and corporations are the easiest scapegoat.

  7. #37
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    Re: What is a "liveable wage"?

    Quote Originally Posted by EdwinWillers View Post
    While they're at it, maybe they could define for us what "rich" or "wealthy" means too.

    I voted "there is no such thing..." - with an important caveat - that such a term is necessarily and purely subjective, ergo any objective definition cannot exist.
    I remember very vividly when Bill Clinton was president in 1993 he defined middle class as households earning $70,000 to $250,000. I was shocked beyond measure. My parents always told me that we were middle class. It was quite a shock to find out we were way below the upper crust of the lower class. We were somewhere towards the bottom. My first 13 years I was middle class and Bill Clinton changed everything and made me a pauper with one speech with a fancy chart.

    I believe there is some sort of agenda in convincing people that we are poor. In the 80's when I was growing up almost everybody called themselves middle class. Now everybody I know defines themselves as poor. I think there is a purpose behind changing the mindset of America. I just don't understand the benefit behind stripping everyone's self worth and dignity but I'm sure they are up to something. Anyways, it worked.

    I just don't know.

  8. #38
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    Re: What is a "liveable wage"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    I have no problem with people making sacrifices. You don't have to be below poverty level for that.

    My problem is that people seem to resent Big Business because they drive a Toyota instead of a Lexus, or eat a Whopper instead of a steak, or have to play the classic Zeldas on a SNES instead of the latest version of Wind Waker on the newest Nintendo out to date.

    It's the entitlement issue - everyone wants to blame someone else for their lot in life, and corporations are the easiest scapegoat.
    While that's certainly true (I'm agreeing with you), if you're going to say that you also have to look at where the opposite line of thinking cripples the discussion of what entails a liveable wage, such as criticizing someone making minimum wage for eating a peanut butter sandwich when they could be saving money and eating Alpo instead.

    Again, it's that whole race to the bottom thing that prevents me from happily delving into what I believe constitutes a "necessity."

  9. #39
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    Re: What is a "liveable wage"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I really don't know how to answer something like that because each location will have different necessities. For example, if you live in a town with a good public transportation system you can actually afford to mothball your car for months at a time and thus avoiding unnecessary gas and insurance costs, whereas here in Los Angeles that's really not an option. And of course some places will need indoor heating, others not so much. Etc etc.

    The problem I see with this sort of discussion is that no matter how spartan the necessity I list one can always find a way to point out an even cheaper alternative, which makes it nothing more than a race to the bottom.
    The thing is what most view as the 'basics' of life are far from it.

    Those that feel they deserve a living wage, want it at the cost to someone else (preferably ebil corporations) rather then improving themselves and earning more to climb their own ladder.

    Hearing people claim FMW should be a 'living wage' brings tears of laughter to my eyes..... no one is forcing people to only make minimum wage. It's that they don't want to put forth the effort to make themselves worth more.... minimum work gets you minimum wage.
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    Re: What is a "liveable wage"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    There is no such thing as a "living wage" or "livable wage" because wages are not determined with the employer having to give consideration given to what the person's lifestyle needs are. The lifestyle needs and choices of the applicant are frankly none of the employer's business.

    If a local grocer wants to hire one person to keep shopping carts from cluttering the parking lot and keep the icy sidewalks salted, and two interested applicants show up, a 35-year old single father of three, and a 16-year old only child who lives at home with his middle class parents…

    …what is the living wage that the job should pay?
    Hire the teenager. He'll work for much less.

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