View Poll Results: Is it inevitable that millions of people will have to die due to population growth?

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    22 40.74%
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Thread: Is it inevitable that due to rapid population growth millions of people will die?

  1. #61
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    Re: Is it inevitable that due to rapid population growth millions of people will die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Why would anyone seriously advocate killing to deal with overpopulation?



    Bizarre comments… yikes.
    How else would you solve overpopulation except by population reduction?
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  2. #62
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    Re: Is it inevitable that due to rapid population growth millions of people will die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyhunter View Post
    How else would you solve overpopulation except by population reduction?
    I don't have a specific intent to actively and directly curb overpopulation. I don't advocate genocide, homicide, or mass suicide, or even (in most cases) mandatory contraception. The fact that you presumed I did is kind of strange, frankly.

    If our population has overshot the carrying capacity of the ecosystems in which those high concentrations of people reside, then sustaining those high concentrations depends on the energy source that brings food, water and other necessities to them, and carries their waste away from them. In other words, do we have metropolises worldwide whose population densities far exceed the ability to subsist? Absolutely we do. There is no questioning that. So therefore we depend on whatever mechanisms keep that going. Specifically, we depend on efficient large-scale industrial food production processes, wide distribution, complex waste management systems, etc. These processes are all extremely energy intensive, and therefore our ability to sustain even our current population completely depends on extracting enough fossil fuel energy at a sufficiently high EROEI to keep it going.

    Whenever it is we can't keep up, cheap-energy-wise, the population will find a way to cull itself, so to speak. There is nothing I advocate be done to proactively cull it beforehand, I'm just predicting, reasonably, that the population has overshot its ecosystems' carrying capacity and is utterly reliant on fossil fuels to sustain now.

    I do recommend though, at least as a social policy more than a population control strategy, that reproduction be strongly disincentivized among those who have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they are far, far too incompetent to raise children. No right is sacrosanct, not property, liberty, or even life, so I definitely don't think reproduction should be sacrosanct as a right either, when it is clear that beyond any reasonable doubt harm would come to that child.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 11-25-13 at 05:19 PM.

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    Re: Is it inevitable that due to rapid population growth millions of people will die?

    Of course it is. Right now, more than 147,000 people die every day. The more people we have, the more people will die. It's a natural part of life. Deal with it.
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    Re: Is it inevitable that due to rapid population growth millions of people will die?

    Either a mass die off or a dramatic drop in the birth rate. One or the other. I've read some articles and papers on this. Even with some magnificent advances in technology, the current growth rate is unsustainable, so it will have to either drop off, or people will have to die off. Probably mostly in Africa, India and China. In short, we're having a population explosion -- kind of like rats and cockroaches do. At the rate we're going, we'll consume ourselves to death. So either the birth rate will drop, or the population will (or both).

    Most convincing arguments have been that war will do it. If not, there's always famine.
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  5. #65
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    Re: Is it inevitable that due to rapid population growth millions of people will die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    we're having a population explosion -- kind of like rats and cockroaches do.
    Cockroaches do not have science, engineering and international trade.

    And I hate to break the news, but the population is not exploding - it is imploding over half of the world. The stuff you have read must be at least 30 years old.

    Places as different as Russia and Japan are facing veritable population collapse. Fertility over the replacement level is retained only in Africa and parts of Asia, but the writing on the wall is there as well: Iran has 1.67 births per woman, despite religious and cultural pressures.

    I do think and hope that this trend will be reversed at some point in future, but right now we have to worry more about things like not enough young people to support all the pensioner than about too many mouths to feed.

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    Re: Is it inevitable that due to rapid population growth millions of people will die?

    No, the natural tendencies of people is to desire to have less children than what is needed and since those outlets are available the only path you will see going forward is declining populations.

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    Re: Is it inevitable that due to rapid population growth millions of people will die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Ladies and gentlemen, libertarianism.
    And yet he made no error in his argument and I imagine you know it.

  8. #68
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    Re: Is it inevitable that due to rapid population growth millions of people will die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    This is the central fallacy of the left. Resources aren't a zero-sum game. No need for such a scarcity mindset. People CREATE wealth. The more people, the more the pie grows for everyone.
    I'm talking about natural resources and their physical limitation. You're thinking about money which is not real.

    And I'm not a member of the left so don't bother trying to type-cast me as though it somehow makes your argument more congruent.

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    Re: Is it inevitable that due to rapid population growth millions of people will die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    I'm talking about natural resources and their physical limitation. You're thinking about money which is not real.

    And I'm not a member of the left so don't bother trying to type-cast me as though it somehow makes your argument more congruent.
    The scarcity mindset you're displaying is the hallmark of the left. I don't know what you're a member of but I know that's what the entire left wing ideology is built upon.

    Wealth is not a zero sum game. The pie grows and shrinks depending on how many people are available to work.

    BTW I'm thinking money and I'm thinking resources, and both are very real. The more people there are, the more we can develop our planet's natural resources. The more people you have to work the farm, the more food we can grow. The more people we have to work in oil and gas, the more we can develop that resource.

    Resources are very plentiful. It's just a matter of having the skilled labor to develop those resources.

  10. #70
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    Re: Is it inevitable that due to rapid population growth millions of people will die?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Neo-malthusians need to go away. Forever.
    They can think of it as population control...

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