Did Oswald kill Kennedy

mak2 said:

I believe Oswald shot him at least once. I have a big problem with him making the second shot with a mauser type rifle and get back on target and actually aim. Possible but not too likely.

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Uh I was able to make two shots with a 30-06 rifle (much more recoil than the 6.5X52mm) in a couple seconds as a 15 year old kid on a target set up to replicate the speed and size of LHO's target.

Lots of people have done that too.

I watched famed Kenyan Professional Hunter, the Late Steven Smith, shoot two running (at full speed) Hyenas with a 458 Winchester Magnum Model 70 (bolt gun, iron sights) in under three seconds.

DaveFagan said:

mil record

Richard Helms: The Most Dangerous CIA Director | Veterans Today
"Helms’s responsibility for Oswald’s mission was demonstrated soon after he entered the USSR. He had Priscilla Johnson McMillan interview Oswald in Moscow, and file her story from there to rekindle his chances of being taken up by the Soviets for a mission in which he could take out a Soviet leader, particularly Khrushchev, if he got the chance. When this effort was apparently failing, Helms was responsible for the effort in the summer of 1960 to contact Oswald through people in the Domestic Contacts Division in the hope, it seems, of recruiting him as an agent, or at least giving the Agency subsequently an alibi about his not being one of theirs. A year later, Mrs. Marie Hyde, an apparent American agent, hitched a ride with Rita Naman and Monica Kramer, British subjects, to Minsk, where the KGB had an espionage training school, from Moscow where they had run into the ex-Marine, and Oswald was then photographed showing the tourists the City Square, especially its towering statue of Lenin."

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I took a look at that website. :lamo

I have heard or your shooting expertise etc. Wonderful. I just said it was possible O made the shots, but I doubt it. He fired sharpshooter in the USMC, never expert.

TurtleDude said:

Uh I was able to make two shots with a 30-06 rifle (much more recoil than the 6.5X52mm) in a couple seconds as a 15 year old kid on a target set up to replicate the speed and size of LHO's target.

Lots of people have done that too.

I watched famed Kenyan Professional Hunter, the Late Steven Smith, shoot two running (at full speed) Hyenas with a 458 Winchester Magnum Model 70 (bolt gun, iron sights) in under three seconds.

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mak2 said:

I have heard or your shooting expertise etc. Wonderful. I just said it was possible O made the shots, but I doubt it. He fired sharpshooter in the USMC, never expert.

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well I know more about shooting than 99% of the people in the world and I know it was an easy shot even for a "marksman". Ray Carter-World Free rifle champion in the late 70s and top instructor at the USAMU-Fort Benning, said most of the recruits in the army could have done it. Ray was one of my coaches when I was at the USO training Center at colorado springs. if you know how to lead a target its a simple shot

mak2 said:

He was barely competent when in the Marine Corps, I have read he fired sharpshooter. Must have had a lot of practice in Moscow.

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Have you ever been to Dealey Plaza in Dallas - to the 6th floor of the School Book Depository? I have, and its a surprising short distance to where Kennedy's car was traveling - at 12 miles per hour. Very, very short. Here's Oswald's military record as a rifleman.

ANDERSON EXHIBIT 1

This was an easy shot for even a barely competent marksman. For a rifleman with a scope, it was pathetically easy.

lee harvey oswald's rifle photos - Yahoo Search Results

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/09/lee-harvey-oswalds-rifle.html

Yet more people engaged in the giant conspiracy, no doubt.

I know you are the worlds best shot blahblahblah. I said it was possible.

John F. Kennedy assassination rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CBS conducted a firing test in 1967 at the H. P. White Ballistics Laboratory located in Street, Maryland. For the test 11 marksmen from diverse backgrounds were invited to participate: 3 Maryland State Troopers, 1 weapons engineer, 1 sporting goods dealer, 1 sportsman, 1 ballistics technician, 1 ex-paratrooper, and 3 H. P. White employees. CBS provided several Carcano rifles for the test. Oswald's rifle was not used in this test. The targets were color-coded orange for head/shoulder silhouette and blue for a near miss. The results of the CBS test were as follows: 7 of 11 shooters were able to fire three rounds under 5.6 seconds (64%). Of those 7 shooters, 6 hit the orange target once (86%), and 5 hit the orange target twice (71%). Out of 60 rounds fired, 25 hit the orange (42%), 21 hit the blue portion of the target (35%), and there were 14 misses on the target (23%).

One volunteer was unable to operate his rifle effectively so the following statistics are based on the 10 remaining shooters. The average time of all 10 was 5.64 seconds. The mode was 5.55 seconds and the mean was 5.70 seconds. The average for the top five shooters was 5.12 seconds, and for the bottom five shooters 6.16 seconds. There was a high occurrence of jamming during the test. On average the rifles jammed after 6 rounds. The most rounds fired without jamming were 14, 11, 10 in a row. The least was 0 (back to back).

TurtleDude said:

well I know more about shooting than 99% of the people in the world and I know it was an easy shot even for a "marksman". Ray Carter-World Free rifle champion in the late 70s and top instructor at the USAMU-Fort Benning, said most of the recruits in the army could have done it. Ray was one of my coaches when I was at the USO training Center at colorado springs. if you know how to lead a target its a simple shot

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Wiggen said:

Proof? Evidence? Or just more wild speculation?

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Yes a secret service agent told me this. You'll have to wait till i decide to publish his comments though. He doesn't want it revealed yet for his family's safety.

earthworm said:

To further put things to rest....And, I do not know why this has never been tried..
Have a fairly proficient sharpshooter from the same distance and angle, using the same weapon (important !) do the same against a slowly moving target...
If several men cannot replicate , then worms will be everywhere...If they are successful, then doubts should no longer exist.

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I believe it has been tried, the FBI did it. I think the results are published in the Warren Report, I don't remember but I assume they were successful.

Wiggen said:

Well, you are incorrect about the shots. There were three and any competent marksman could have done it, which has been proven time and time again. There was no second gunman. Nobody has reported seeing one. What does exist is a lot of gullible people willing to believe any crazy theory out there.

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Actually, there were about 50 eye-witness reports of seeing smoke or hearing a gunshot coming from the grassy knoll. That's in the Warren Report.

Don't know, don't really care.

Not long after Bay of Pigs, Cuban Missile Crisis and attacking organized crime...he drives slowly around a major city in an open topped car?

How stupid can you get?

I personally believe our own CIA killed Mr. Kennedy. With all the opposition Kennedy had with the Federal Reserve, the Military industrial complex as well as many others in the banking industry.

mak2 said:

He was barely competent when in the Marine Corps, I have read he fired sharpshooter. Must have had a lot of practice in Moscow.

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Where did you read that?

There are better sources, but this is the first one that came up, and it just happens to agree with me...

Was Lee Harvey Oswald an Expert Marksman? : The JFK Assassination

Two things changed back in 1963.

Presidents no longer ride around in convertible cars.

Police officers no longer parade the perp around in front of public news areas.

The second one has as much importance as the first.
Oswald's only statement after his arrest was a smiling "I'm just a patsy." It seems as though he found out too late who was the fall guy.
Jack Ruby (who already knew that he had terminal cancer) just walked right up and silenced Oswald before the world. That is truly what Dallas has to be ashamed of, for allowing it to happen.

Whether or not Oswald would have been believed when he spilled the beans was something that someone could not be troubled with. Ruby probably made more money for killing Oswald than we can possibly imagine. That's just a possibility. The other is that he Loved JFK so much that he was willing to be imprisoned for the rest of his life with cancer in order to kill Kennedy's killer.

The Dallas popo screwed the pooch. Now we will never know. I'm glad that they've finally removed the X from the street. It was in the wrong place anyway.

d0gbreath said:

Whether or not Oswald would have been believed when he spilled the beans was something that someone could not be troubled with. Ruby probably made more money for killing Oswald than we can possibly imagine. That's just a possibility. The other is that he Loved JFK so much that he was willing to be imprisoned for the rest of his life with cancer in order to kill Kennedy's killer.

The Dallas popo screwed the pooch. Now we will never know. I'm glad that they've finally removed the X from the street. It was in the wrong place anyway.

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The CIA (IMO) allowed him to stay in the Dallas PD custody, because they knew Ruby was going to silence Oswald there. Otherwise, the Fed's would've had him elsewhere.

Jack Ruby knew who was behind it. He even admitted it, without dropping names.

JohnnyDollar said:

The CIA (IMO) allowed him to stay in the Dallas PD custody, because they knew Ruby was going to silence Oswald there. Otherwise, the Fed's would've had him elsewhere.

Jack Ruby knew who was behind it. He even admitted it, without dropping names.

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Yes, it was odd that he wasn't in Federal custody. If any crime would put you there, presidential assassination should have done so.

Ruby liked his short lived role as the guy who wouldn't crack.

He never did.

One question that I've always pondered, is why didn't Oswald (if it was Oswald) shoot Kennedy when he was coming right towards him?

When Kennedy's limo made a right turn on Houston st, it proceeded very slow, because elm was just the next left. The whole time, Oswald had a direct view of the president. Especially since the governors seat was lower than the presidents. He had close to a 45seconds to aim and fire at the slow moving president.

Here's a map. For some reason, it won't let me post it.

I still struggle with the fact that the kill shot pushed Kennedys head back and his brain went flying out the back of his head.

How could a bullet from the back do that?

Mason66 said:

I still struggle with the fact that the kill shot pushed Kennedys head back and his brain went flying out the back of his head.

How could a bullet from the back do that?

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That's hard to answer. The slow motion of the Zapruder film shows blood and brain matter flying forward (like it was coming out of a squirt gun)... And brain fragments going onto the truck of the limo. It went every where.

Obviously the bullet had to come from the back right of Kennedy. Because the angle of the head, the angle of the car and the trajectory of the bullet.

At the second of impact. His head was facing down and to the left The bullet wound (that's public) shows a bullet wound in the back of Kennedy's head. And the right side of the head blown out. If the bullet had come from the front right or the right, the left side of the head would've been damaged... I've seen no damage to the left side of the head.

Now, with that said, why wasn't the governors wife or even the governor hit with the bullet that hit the presidents head. The trajectory from the book depository should've hit either of them because the governor was already hit and laying against his wife when the fatal bullet struck the president. And if you're on the back right of the president, the bullet that struck the presidents head, didn't stop in the presidents head.. The only thing in front of the president was the governor and wife. There was no bullet hole in the seat in front of the president.

But, there is a bullet hole in the windshield. Which couldn't been what caused the presidents head to explode on impact. Usually, the impact wound will be a small hole and the exit wound will be much larger.. So, the first impact would be the windshield which would cause the bullet to become so disfigured that when it struck the president, it had already lost it's much of it's momentum and caused the gaping wound on the right side of his head.

But that leaves us with the small wound on the back of the head. Which, from what I've found, wasn't large enough to fit the bullets used my Oswalds gun.

d0gbreath said:

Yes, it was odd that he wasn't in Federal custody. If any crime would put you there, presidential assassination should have done so.

He never did.

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Dallas Police arrested Oswald 1st for the murder of Officer Tippet, so thier Jurisdiction is final 1st.

mak2 said:

He was barely competent when in the Marine Corps, I have read he fired sharpshooter. Must have had a lot of practice in Moscow.

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He quailified sharpshooter and marksman with a semi auto garand. I believe he got sniper training in Moscow. I just don't know why he used such an obscure, even for the day, rifle.

I guess any case that has had the scrutiny this case has over the years there would be a lot of unexplainable things.

CRUE CAB said:

He quailified sharpshooter and marksman with a semi auto garand. I believe he got sniper training in Moscow. I just don't know why he used such an obscure, even for the day, rifle.

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LowDown said:

Extensor spasm in response to massive brainstem trauma.

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And proportionately how many times would this occur with a million shots? What are the odds. Real world. Keep in mind that a 5 inch section of the back of Kennedy's skull was blown out. If the bullet hit from the rear with enough impact to blow out a 5 inch section of bone, it must have been one hell of a impact.

mak2 said:

I guess any case that has had the scrutiny this case has over the years there would be a lot of unexplainable things.

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Well one explaination was these rifles were cheap and plentiful in surplus.
But so were Mosin Nagants and Garands. Both way more power ful and more accurate.

Wiggen said:

Have you ever been to Dealey Plaza in Dallas - to the 6th floor of the School Book Depository? I have, and its a surprising short distance to where Kennedy's car was traveling - at 12 miles per hour. Very, very short. Here's Oswald's military record as a rifleman.

ANDERSON EXHIBIT 1

This was an easy shot for even a barely competent marksman. For a rifleman with a scope, it was pathetically easy.

lee harvey oswald's rifle photos - Yahoo Search Results

DVP's JFK ARCHIVES: LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S RIFLE (PART 2)

Yet more people engaged in the giant conspiracy, no doubt.

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I have been to Dealy Plaza. I didn't go to the 6th floor of the school book depository though. Looking up at that 6th floor window from where President Kennedy's car was supposed to be, I don't see how Oswald hit him even once. Of course we know he didn't shoot the bullet that came from the front.