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Thread: Learn english first

  1. #111
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    Re: Learn english first

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_Osophy View Post
    Well, i will say this; she is the most productive worker on my team. But her not being able to speak english (very well... at all) cripples overall prpductivity and takes more time and poses potential safety hazards.
    i think this is a bit extreme. Most immigrants are very productive people. I dont know why so many of them dont just learn the damn language. If i went to live in mexico (hypothetically of course. I have no interest in that ****hole), i would make it a top priority to learn spanish for several reasons. I think they are intelligent enough to learn english, but people have overaccomodated so much, i guess some just dont care to.
    I live in Mexico. I can't tell you how many times I have Heard from people that it is just too hard to learn English. That is the idea people have here so they don't even try.

    On the other side I got a call from my local post office to help with an English speaking customer. He was an army officer, which he told me many times, and he was waiting for a package that was supposedly sent 1 day service from Ventura California. First off there is no such thing as 1 day service to Mexico through the US Post Office. As he was ranting he told me over and over and was very upset about the fact that the people at the Mexican Postal Service did not speak English and he did not speak any Spanish at all. I don't know why he would come to a Spanish speaking country and expect his language to be accomodated.

    When I got here I had to learn Spanish because not enough people speak English. That is just the way it is, but this guy was very upset that nobody at the post office spoke English.

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    Re: Learn english first

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    I do believe that English is the language of our nation and it annoys me that my neighbors, who are good folks, speak Spanish to their little kids.
    Why does that bother you? Most immigrant communities are like that. I've known many families from Russia over the past 5 years and they all speak Russian at home to their children. The kids, interestingly, speak English even to each other. My Grandmother didn't hear English the first 5 years of her life growing up in a Polish immigrant family (she was born in the US, but her father wasn't). Her kids (my mother and uncle) don't speak Polish at all.


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  3. #113
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    Re: Learn english first

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    My brother is married to a Valencian. Their 3-year-old twins speak Spanish at home with Mum, English to Daddy and at playgroup. When they are with both parents they speak their own mixture of the two. Kids are amazing!
    How funny you criticize somebody else for using words you don't recognize then you use a Word like Valencian.

    What is Valencian?

  4. #114
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    Re: Learn english first

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_Osophy View Post
    I think that employers should be allowed to deny employment to those who cant speak english. Im not saying they shouldnt be allowed to hire them, but i think they deserve a choice in this matter. What do you think?
    You do get a choice. But you also have a responsibility. You're a steward, not a tyrant, and peoples lives are spent at work, and often tied in more ways than one to work, are you really unable to work with them or it's just more challenging? Can you not find a way to work around it or improve it? sure, we'd all like to turn our nose up at anyone who is not a star player and demand better people so our job is easy...but that's costly, in more ways than one.

    Would you fire the deaf guy because it's harder to communicate to him? The mute guy? I've hired both and we work around it. Is it more challenging? Sure. Is it so bad I have to fire them? No. People do not exist to make your job easy. It should be more challenging if you're in leadership. You are supposed to take challenging situations and still get outcomes from them. That's the point. And maybe a little along the way you end up growing to. Growing into what though?

    One person is slower, one is harder to communicate with, one is paranoid and defensive, one is flat out annoying, one is loud and obnoxious....are you not good enough to juggle all that? Maybe they need a new manager who can handle their job not being "easy"

    If it's not a high stakes career/profession, I would say make the best of your team and be a good steward. And yes, communication is a valid reason not to hire someone, and you can fire at will too. But should you. Focus on their strengths instead, it's often a matter of perspective.

    For me personally only if someone really triggers me emotionally and has me really angry all the time do I start to consider needing to make a change. If it's just frustrating and annoying..big deal. If you go home all worked up and can't stand to look at them without raging...then you'd need to make a change. But often you can move someone due to personal clash, not necessarily fire them. It takes two you know!

  5. #115
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    Re: Learn english first

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    Trust me, my business will never expand to South America. We are only involved in Canada because another company is paying us to support their business. We have more then enough business in the US without even trying to go overseas.

    China is simply a source of some of our supplies, nothing else.

    And to most people, an additional language is rather useless in the US (unless they work in a ghettoized neighborhood). And even in those regions, English is commonly understood. I work in Chinatown, and have yet to meet somebody there that does not know English.
    In my opinión it is good to know at least some spanish so you know what people are saying around you. It could be a safety issue.

    You would be amazed at the things people say when they think you don't understand.

  6. #116
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    Re: Learn english first

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    You do get a choice. But you also have a responsibility. You're a steward, not a tyrant, and peoples lives are spent at work, and often tied in more ways than one to work, are you really unable to work with them or it's just more challenging? Can you not find a way to work around it or improve it? sure, we'd all like to turn our nose up at anyone who is not a star player and demand better people so our job is easy...but that's costly, in more ways than one.

    Would you fire the deaf guy because it's harder to communicate to him? The mute guy? I've hired both and we work around it. Is it more challenging? Sure. Is it so bad I have to fire them? No. People do not exist to make your job easy. It should be more challenging if you're in leadership. You are supposed to take challenging situations and still get outcomes from them. That's the point. And maybe a little along the way you end up growing to. Growing into what though?

    One person is slower, one is harder to communicate with, one is paranoid and defensive, one is flat out annoying, one is loud and obnoxious....are you not good enough to juggle all that? Maybe they need a new manager who can handle their job not being "easy"

    If it's not a high stakes career/profession, I would say make the best of your team and be a good steward. And yes, communication is a valid reason not to hire someone, and you can fire at will too. But should you. Focus on their strengths instead, it's often a matter of perspective.

    For me personally only if someone really triggers me emotionally and has me really angry all the time do I start to consider needing to make a change. If it's just frustrating and annoying..big deal. If you go home all worked up and can't stand to look at them without raging...then you'd need to make a change. But often you can move someone due to personal clash, not necessarily fire them. It takes two you know!
    I don't agree with this at all.

    It is not a managers job to juggle problem people.

    If the persons situation is counter productive to the business, they are gone. Period. Why does the manager need to spend extra time dealing with problem employees? That costs the company money and productivity.

    It seems like you will work around a persons problems unless they rub you the wrong way, and then they are gone. Why not work around your emotional problems?

  7. #117
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    Re: Learn english first

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    Does your wife speak English with a Texas accent?
    Why would she? We only lived in Texas from 08-12, and have been married for 28 years.

    Interestingly enough, most American's can't place her accent at all anymore. Most people guess that she is Russian or Israeli, it is now a slight accent more noticed because of the way she speaks then an actual accent itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    In my opinión it is good to know at least some spanish so you know what people are saying around you. It could be a safety issue.

    You would be amazed at the things people say when they think you don't understand.
    Oh, I know some Spanish, understand far more then I speak.

    And that is an issue my Wife always had. Most do not realize that is her native language, and she always catches them making remarks about "white people" and "Americans" like we are stupid and lazy and make to much money so should give it to them. Interestingly enough, that is only something she heard in El Paso, seems to be an attitude more common in Juarez then in most of the rest of Mexico.

    Of course, she speaks Spanish with a Castilian accent (specifically Rioplatense), which she says always makes people from Mexico sit up and take notice of her. She said it was almost as hard learning the Mexican dialect as it was to learn English.
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  8. #118
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    Re: Learn english first

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    This is true. When you move to a country you should learn their language, but isn't there a bit of confusion in parts of the States where you'd need to learn two languages: English and Spanish? That's a tall order for a lot of people, and will take time. In the meantime, should those people be excluded from the workforce? Also, whilst you should learn the host language, you'll never learn it well enough for some people's taste. That's why I tend to get annoyed at apparently semi-literate types on DP attempting to criticise others' use of English when their own can hardly be a source of pride.

    The whole 'Grammar Nazi' thing shows up a cultural difference, not between nationalities, but between mindsets. I, and many friends, family and acquaintances, would not agree with the view that you only need to speak or write English well enough for someone else to understand your meaning. While that is fine for speakers of English as a second language, for native speakers I'd hold them to a higher requirement. If you believe that a language is something more than merely a means of communicating basic information, that it encompasses art and conveys character and nuance and permits the expression of imagination and the metaphysical, then the phrase, 'y'know what I mean?' should not be required.
    This is completely incorrect. There are no states in the US where you "need to learn two languages". I grew up in Texas, one of the states with the most Spanish speakers, and I at no point in my entire life have ever needed Spanish. It is not the language of the US, nor is it a requirement. Some people try to get cute and say "Well, officially the US has no language". And to that I say "Bull****."

    Our constitution and laws are written in English, our police officers all speak English, we are an English speaking country. I'm an immigrant myself, but I learned my host nation's language and don't act like a lazy immigrant expecting them to learn mine.

    It's lazy, disrespectful, and frankly a little dangerous when immigrants come en masse and refuse to even make an attempt to learn English.
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  9. #119
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    Re: Learn english first

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_Osophy View Post
    So.... i have a question. Should employers have the right to refuse employment because someone cant speak english?

    Disclaimer: this is not about any specific "race" or language. Just about legal immigrants who cant speak english.

    So, at work today i got really frustrated trying to communicate with someone who didnt speak very much english. Only a tiny bit. Not nearly enough to hold a conversation.
    Im a leader in the workplace, so from time to time i have to ask someone to do something or for information. Its really hard to communicate with a person who cant speak english. I asked this person to not throw out the damaged products of the particular job we were doing because i have to keep count and record of them. This person didnt have a clue what i was asking and continued to throw out the damaged products.

    Long story short, it made my job a lot harder and a thought hit my head; why are people who cant speak english even hired in the first place? How did this person make it through the process and interview with such little grasp on the language?

    I think that employers should be allowed to deny employment to those who cant speak english. Im not saying they shouldnt be allowed to hire them, but i think they deserve a choice in this matter. What do you think?
    Here's a suggestion: Make sure your own English--notice that the word is capitalized--is up to par before criticizing the English of others.
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  10. #120
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    Re: Learn english first

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_Osophy View Post
    So.... i have a question. Should employers have the right to refuse employment because someone cant speak english?
    I seem to remember in my head about those persons who wish a CDL have to speak and write English satisfactorily?

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