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Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

  • Total voters
    107
Smoking, whether it is allowed or prohibited should be left to the determination of the individual owner of the establishment.

It's his property and the government, hell, no one has the right to dictate what is and isn't allowed.
 
pbrauer said:
I don't think smoking should be allowed in any establishment where the public or workers are expected to breathe. Sorry, I was an idiot who smoked for 35 years and now has a smoking related illness. I am not sympathetic to anyone who thinks they have a right to smoke any place they want. Everyone does have the right to expect a smoke free environment.

If you smoke, do yourself, family, friends and co-workers a favor and STOP. You'll eventually learn to enjoy a cup of coffee or a beer without that poison. If you fail, try it again and again and again until you succeed.

/rant
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No greater crusader is there against a smoker's freedom than that of an ex smoker...
 
ChezC3 said:
No greater crusader is there against a smoker's freedom than that of an ex smoker...
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Smokers have the right to suck it in, but exhaling that crap is another story.
 
Superfly said:
OK. :lol: As for why we didn't "head down the road," well, again - on a road trip with kids in the car. You take what you get.

We aren't ever going to agree on this, so have a fabulous evening. :2wave:
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Heh, I understand, I remember being told by a car full of youngsters how they would soon expire if not fed immediately, wrong tack to take with me, that guaranteed we wouldn't eat until I settled on a place. :mrgreen:

I know we won't agree, which is interesting because I always chose non-smoking restaurants over the smoking allowed ones even before the ordinance. The issue isn't my personal preference but how much I think government should be allowed to hold our hands.

The same to you!
 
radcen said:
Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

Most states have blanket bans against smoking in all bars and restaurants. No exceptions. As a result, you often see smokers huddled in small groups outside partaking in cigarettes.

I am not, and have never been, a smoker but to me this in inherently unfair. IMO, the state should set aside special permits for a small percentage of bars and restaurants where smoking be allowed. To pick a number, I would say 10% to 15% of bars and restaurants should be allowed to have smoking inside. Have them post a large sign at each entrance notifying potentials customers, so everyone is fully informed and able to make their own choice. No one needs to go in and act surprised.

I don't see the need to make them age-restricted to 18+ or 21+, but I could live with that compromise.

What think you?
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I used to be a smoker. I am for keeping smoking out of restaurants and bars.I am against exposing workers to 2nd hand smoke just because the business owner thinks it will make him or her a few extra bucks. That said I would be for making it legal to smoke in bars and restaurants as long as the owner/proprietor is the only one allowed to bring smokers their food and drink and there should be severe fines and possible loss of business for violating this.
 
specklebang said:
Yes, I remember this also and L.A. was even earlier in the restaurant bans. OTOH, the law allows for owner operated bars with no employees to allow smoking thereby giving those owners a real advantage. So, you know, everything is a tradeoff.
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Only until 1998., Then the complete ban in all bars and restaurants went into effect.

One I remember going to often was Louisiana Hots, in Palmdale. One of the local hotspots, their Friday Karaoke was hugely popular, and seeing somebody come in like Jamie Jones (All-4-One), Noah Hathaway (Boxy, Atrayu) and Afroman were regular occurrences on Friday night. But when the ban went into effect, the business basically crashed. They tried to put in outside smoking areas, but the county said each was in violation of some kind of ordinance, so eventually you would go there and see 100 people in the parking lot, but nobody inside.

A year later they closed their doors. I talked to the owner right before that happened, and he said the 100% smoking ban killed him. And several other places I went to suffered the same fate. In most of California other ordinances restrict or prohibit outside seating which allow smoking, so the only choice is to leave the business. The most recent prohibits smoking within 20 feet of a door or window, which outlawed most of the patios which allowed smoking, since I have never seen one 20 feet from a doorway.
 
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specklebang said:
The basis of most of this legislation had to do with the employees, not the customers so much. As a smoker (I used to smoke in theaters, airplanes and department stores believe it or not), I've watched the noose tighten. My initial reaction was anger but I've come around to accepting these restrictions.

But place like NYC that make it a point to make smokers suffer and allow no exceptions - are just jerks to me. Everything needs some balnc.

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Now that I discovered E-Cigs, I smoke in all these places again. Ha-ha!!!

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There are many things not left to owners. Bathrooms, fire alarms, minimum wages etc. In many cases, this may be for the best although it does feel like an imposition.
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True, but last I checked, employees aren't forced to work in any particular establishment. They have as much a choice as the owners of the establishment.
 
pbrauer said:
Smokers have the right to suck it in, but exhaling that crap is another story.
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Call for a country-wide ban on the internal combustion engine and then sing me that song...
 
specklebang said:
Now that I discovered E-Cigs, I smoke in all these places again. Ha-ha!!!
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Good thing you do not live in New jersey - they treat them legally just like cigarettes.

And just a few months ago a bill to do the same thing in California almost made it to a vote in the State Legislature (it was shelved because they knew they did not have the votes). But it will be reintroduced next year, and it is already expected to pass when it does.

Anti-
 
specklebang said:
The basis of most of this legislation had to do with the employees, not the customers so much. As a smoker (I used to smoke in theaters, airplanes and department stores believe it or not), I've watched the noose tighten. My initial reaction was anger but I've come around to accepting these restrictions.

But place like NYC that make it a point to make smokers suffer and allow no exceptions - are just jerks to me. Everything needs some balnc.

-----

Now that I discovered E-Cigs, I smoke in all these places again. Ha-ha!!!

-----

There are many things not left to owners. Bathrooms, fire alarms, minimum wages etc. In many cases, this may be for the best although it does feel like an imposition.
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True, but last I checked, employees aren't forced to work in any particular establishment. They have as much a choice as the owners of the establishment.
 
Ikari said:
Well to be fair, the animals were never in the cooking areas and many restaurants didn't allow them inside; but they could chill on the patio or something outside.
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So can the smokers.
 
eohrnberger said:
True, but last I checked, employees aren't forced to work in any particular establishment. They have as much a choice as the owners of the establishment.
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Yeah, can't say I like that argument much. Like it or not, secondhand smoke has been deemed a workplace hazard. I wouldn't endorse leaving that hazard in place and just saying, well, you don't have to work there. However, there is standard equipment to deal with that hazard so it won't affect employees any more than say, working around grease fryers.
 
radcen said:
Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

Most states have blanket bans against smoking in all bars and restaurants. No exceptions. As a result, you often see smokers huddled in small groups outside partaking in cigarettes.

I am not, and have never been, a smoker but to me this in inherently unfair. IMO, the state should set aside special permits for a small percentage of bars and restaurants where smoking be allowed. To pick a number, I would say 10% to 15% of bars and restaurants should be allowed to have smoking inside. Have them post a large sign at each entrance notifying potentials customers, so everyone is fully informed and able to make their own choice. No one needs to go in and act surprised.

I don't see the need to make them age-restricted to 18+ or 21+, but I could live with that compromise.

What think you?
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I voted for lift all bans. Other than a good cigar from time to time, I don't smoke.

If a bar owner wants to allow smoking that should be his or her business. If clientele and/or staff don't like it, they are free to go elsewhere. It's about personal choice. The bar owner and employees are paying a crapload of local, state and federal taxes. That's enough. Let them run their business, set their own smoking rules and be done with it.
 
ChezC3 said:
Smoking, whether it is allowed or prohibited should be left to the determination of the individual owner of the establishment.

It's his property and the government, hell, no one has the right to dictate what is and isn't allowed.
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I'm certainly inclined to agree with you. If the owner so chooses to allow smoking in his establishment and hangs a shingle outside making it very clear smoking is allowed then those who don't wish to be around the smoke need not enter. Same with an owner that wants a smoke free establishment. Those who smoke need not bitch about it but move on to a place that allows it. These laws get passed at the state level where the self-righteous decide what is best for everyone. They just can't let people make their own choices and take responsibility for them. They are the same ones that vote yes on the increase of every sin tax that comes down the pike too. With the way government is encroaching now on determining what a person can eat, I'm looking for governments to start taxing the fat. Maybe then some folks will wake up and see the light.
 
Oozlefinch said:
Only until 1998., Then the complete ban in all bars and restaurants went into effect.

One I remember going to often was Louisiana Hots, in Palmdale. One of the local hotspots, their Friday Karaoke was hugely popular, and seeing somebody come in like Jamie Jones (All-4-One), Noah Hathaway (Boxy, Atrayu) and Afroman were regular occurrences on Friday night. But when the ban went into effect, the business basically crashed. They tried to put in outside smoking areas, but the county said each was in violation of some kind of ordinance, so eventually you would go there and see 100 people in the parking lot, but nobody inside.

A year later they closed their doors. I talked to the owner right before that happened, and he said the 100% smoking ban killed him. And several other places I went to suffered the same fate. In most of California other ordinances restrict or prohibit outside seating which allow smoking, so the only choice is to leave the business. The most recent prohibits smoking within 20 feet of a door or window, which outlawed most of the patios which allowed smoking, since I have never seen one 20 feet from a doorway.
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Once smoking bans went into effect bars became "family friendly". Many good, REAL, bars have been ruined since families began bringing their children because the environment is smoke free.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Once smoking bans went into effect bars became "family friendly". Many good, REAL, bars have been ruined since families began bringing their children because the environment is smoke free.
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A real bar was never "family friendly". Only the yuppie places that serve meals and drinks (TGI Fridays, Red Robin, etc). To me that is more a pub then a bar. And even those generally had restrictions where kids were not allowed in the bar section.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Once smoking bans went into effect bars became "family friendly". Many good, REAL, bars have been ruined since families began bringing their children because the environment is smoke free.
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Who brings their kids into a bar? That's not good parenting. I thought you had to be 18 to enter a bar...21 to drink in the bar....period. Hell I got carded the other day just for stepping into Cigars International!
 
vesper said:
I'm certainly inclined to agree with you. If the owner so chooses to allow smoking in his establishment and hangs a shingle outside making it very clear smoking is allowed then those who don't wish to be around the smoke need not enter. Same with an owner that wants a smoke free establishment. Those who smoke need not bitch about it but move on to a place that allows it. These laws get passed at the state level where the self-righteous decide what is best for everyone. They just can't let people make their own choices and take responsibility for them. They are the same ones that vote yes on the increase of every sin tax that comes down the pike too. With the way government is encroaching now on determining what a person can eat, I'm looking for governments to start taxing the fat. Maybe then some folks will wake up and see the light.
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I agree with everything you wrote. But I think you are too much the optimist with your last sentence...
 
Superfly said:
But aren't you treading on ours, by forcing us to inhale your smoke? Why can't you just stand outside? Or better yet, wait til your meal is over?
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You don't have to eat there A) B) which is more important, it the business has right to include or not smoking. They get to make that decision not you. So long as they inform people smokers are welcome there, and their employees are informed and sign off on knowing smoking is allowed at the establishment. The business is the one talking the risk. Not you, not me. Its their choice. Its quite frankly the antithesis of the American way to do other than allow the business owner the choice and freedom.
 
Superfly said:
Had there been other choices, I would have walked out. I guarantee that if there was a restaurant where I live that allowed smoking, I'd never patronize the place. I'd choose somewhere else. But I was on a road trip, and as I mentioned, this was the only place around for a while.

Also, I don't have to worry about restaurants changing their policy. The government has taken care of that for me.
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So what else do you want government to take care of? And the flip side of that question what if decide for your own good of course, to take care of something you don't want them to? Then what. You don't like smoking so you impose your views. When you impose you should always expect to be imposed upon.
 
Of course it should be allowed, depending on the decision of the owner of the establishment.
 
radcen said:
Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

Most states have blanket bans against smoking in all bars and restaurants. No exceptions. As a result, you often see smokers huddled in small groups outside partaking in cigarettes.

I am not, and have never been, a smoker but to me this in inherently unfair. IMO, the state should set aside special permits for a small percentage of bars and restaurants where smoking be allowed. To pick a number, I would say 10% to 15% of bars and restaurants should be allowed to have smoking inside. Have them post a large sign at each entrance notifying potentials customers, so everyone is fully informed and able to make their own choice. No one needs to go in and act surprised.

I don't see the need to make them age-restricted to 18+ or 21+, but I could live with that compromise.

What think you?
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I believe these laws were enacted to protect workers who would otherwise have no choice but to be in close contact with other people's second-hand smoke which can endanger their health.
 
ChezC3 said:
Call for a country-wide ban on the internal combustion engine and then sing me that song...
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I wouldn't call for a ban on the internal combustion engine or smoking because I believe people have a right to smoke. But those smokers don't have a right to pollute other peoples space.
 
Constantine said:
Who brings their kids into a bar? That's not good parenting. I thought you had to be 18 to enter a bar...21 to drink in the bar....period. Hell I got carded the other day just for stepping into Cigars International!
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Certainly many or most of us agree with you. It is a sad fact, however, that when establishments began losing revenue after smoking bans went into effect they looked for a way to bring in new customers. Unfortunately they turned great drinking establishments into family friendly places with kids menus and ice cream.

My wife and I were actually in one of those new "family friendly" former good old drinking establishments a few years ago in Tempe when we heard a table of moms with children seated in the bar area loudly chastise a couple of guys sitting at the bar having beers and watching a football game, "Watch your language please there are children here."

****ing hell!

I would have been shocked, but it wasn't the first time I'd seen that happen.

In England bars are closing at a rapid pace. I can't say that no smoking is the sole reason, but I know the decline began not long after the ban on smoking.
 
pbrauer said:
I wouldn't call for a ban on the internal combustion engine or smoking because I believe people have a right to smoke. But those smokers don't have a right to pollute other peoples space.
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and neither do other people's cars...

I don't own a car, and I am quite upset I have to have my lungs polluted every time I walk out of the house by other people's filthy, disgusting, dirty habit...
 
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