View Poll Results: Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

Voters
125. You may not vote on this poll
  • I think ALL smoking restrictions should be lifted.

    26 20.80%
  • Yes, some bars/restaurants should be set aside to allow smoking.

    37 29.60%
  • No, keep it is it is now.

    51 40.80%
  • Other

    11 8.80%
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Thread: Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

  1. #131
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    Re: Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    What if I find the idea of pork products, or combining meat and dairy offensive? Do I have the right to demand that everybody adopt a kosher lifestyle just because I personally find that not doing so is offensive?

    That is the problem with most of the arguments by the "ban it all" crowd. They have no problem banning something because they agree with the ban, but would fight tooth and nail if they were against such a ban.

    Personally, when those laws started to get passed in California I did not smoke. I did not care for smoking, but I also saw it as a restriction placed by force upon business owners on what is a legal substance.

    But hey, let's just crank everything down. I say we ban the sales of alcohol in any place that people under 21 can see them, because it glorifies alcohol.
    And require liquor stores to have opaque windows, and follow all the laws of porn shops to keep our kids safe.

    And ban all movies that show a vehicle used in an unsafe manner, because it can encourage kids to do the same thing when they start to drive.

    This "ban it all" attitude is something which greatly disturbs me. We even have cities where perfume is banned because of people with "environmental allergies". And I have been in parks where dogs were not allowed.

    WTF ever happened to personal responsibility, and minding your own business?
    Wow! I had the same thoughts about kosher foods as you when reading some of these comments. Crap I don't eat pork, but I would be damn if I would demand all kitchens in restaurants be set up Kosher.

    I thought about how kids in my neighborhood have to wear helmets, knee pads and elbow pads just to ride a ****ing bicycle because of some moronic zealots decided every child needs to be protected from injury. Now through the summer months you hardly find a kid riding a bike, who the **** would want to with all that crap on in 90 degree weather?

    I think of being raised in the 60's and many people smoked. My parents did and they did it in our home and car in front of us kids. Today my parents would be portrayed as those who committed child abuse because they smoked in front of us. I had the most loving parents a child could ever dream of getting. I find their rhetoric quite offensive. I have even read in one instance in Arizona where their ordinance forbid a person to drive through their city in their car smoking. If caught it will result in a fine. I don't know what happened to personal responsibility and minding your own business because there are sure a lot of control freaks out there who have pretty long noses.

  2. #132
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    Re: Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post

    I think of being raised in the 60's and many people smoked. My parents did and they did it in our home and car in front of us kids. Today my parents would be portrayed as those who committed child abuse because they smoked in front of us. I had the most loving parents a child could ever dream of getting. I find their rhetoric quite offensive. I have even read in one instance in Arizona where their ordinance forbid a person to drive through their city in their car smoking. If caught it will result in a fine. I don't know what happened to personal responsibility and minding your own business because there are sure a lot of control freaks out there who have pretty long noses.
    It's because so many people are insecure, and living in fear these days. People who live in fear like to control other people.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  3. #133
    Educator Amandi's Avatar
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    Re: Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    What if I find the idea of pork products, or combining meat and dairy offensive? Do I have the right to demand that everybody adopt a kosher lifestyle just because I personally find that not doing so is offensive?

    That is the problem with most of the arguments by the "ban it all" crowd. They have no problem banning something because they agree with the ban, but would fight tooth and nail if they were against such a ban.

    Personally, when those laws started to get passed in California I did not smoke. I did not care for smoking, but I also saw it as a restriction placed by force upon business owners on what is a legal substance.

    But hey, let's just crank everything down. I say we ban the sales of alcohol in any place that people under 21 can see them, because it glorifies alcohol.
    And require liquor stores to have opaque windows, and follow all the laws of porn shops to keep our kids safe.

    And ban all movies that show a vehicle used in an unsafe manner, because it can encourage kids to do the same thing when they start to drive.

    This "ban it all" attitude is something which greatly disturbs me. We even have cities where perfume is banned because of people with "environmental allergies". And I have been in parks where dogs were not allowed.

    WTF ever happened to personal responsibility, and minding your own business?
    Second hand smoke makes your argument invalid.

  4. #134
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    Re: Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Fine then start a movement to ban them. And that way the sin taxes will cease and you can step in and help fill the void starting with your own wallet.

    And since I know of no person on this earth who is free of vices, whether it is cigarettes, alcohol, drugs (illegal or prescription), food, sex, coffee, tea, chocolate etc. who knows the way things are going, your vice may be taxed or banned next.
    Usually when I have a coffee or eat a chocolate bar I don't give people lung cancer; and it only affects me not the rest of society.

  5. #135
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    Re: Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    Second hand smoke makes your argument invalid.
    No it doesn't make his argument invalid. You want a smoke free home then you have that choice. You want to eat in restaurants that are smoke free then you have that choice too. But what you don't have is the right to force on others your choices. When you cross that line you are violating their rights and their choices. If a business owner wants to allow smoking then there is no good reason for you to give a flying flip because you need not enter and give your business elsewhere. If workers are offended by an establishment that allows smoking they can move on and seek employment in a place that is smoke free. If parents smoke it is none of your damn business. Take care of your own business and keep your nose out of everyone else's.

  6. #136
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    Re: Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

    Definitely. All private establishments should be allowed to have smoking within the premises if they see fit. They should be required to post on all exterior doors that they allow it though.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
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  7. #137
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    Re: Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

    That should be up to the owners

  8. #138
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    Re: Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Definitely. All private establishments should be allowed to have smoking within the premises if they see fit. They should be required to post on all exterior doors that they allow it though.
    The only problem is that the restaurants who don't allow smoking will lose a customer base, so more than likely there would be very few nonsmoking establishments.

  9. #139
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    Re: Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    Second hand smoke makes your argument invalid.


    Much of the SHS hype is overrated.

    In addition, the problem posed by SHS is entirely different from that found with mainstream smoke. A well recognized toxicological principle is, “the dose makes the poison.” We physicians record direct exposure to cigarette smoke by smokers in the medical record as ‘pack-years smoked’ (packs smoked per day times the number of years smoked). A smoking history of around ten pack-years alerts the physician to search for cigarette-caused illness. But even those nonsmokers with the greatest exposure to SHS probably inhale the equivalent of only a small fraction (around 0.03) of one cigarette per day, which is equivalent to smoking around 10 cigarettes per year.7,8 Another major problem is that the epidemiological studies on which the EPA report is based are statistical studies that can only show correlation but cannot prove causation. One statistical method used to compare the rates of a disease in two populations is relative risk (RR). It is the rate of disease found in the exposed population divided by the rate found in the unexposed population. A RR of 1.0 represents zero increased risk. Because confounding and other factors can obscure a weak association, in order to suggest causation a very strong association must be found, on the order of at least 300% to 400%, which is a RR of 3.0 to 4.0.9 For example, the studies that linked direct cigarette smoking with lung cancer found an incidence
    Several years later, in 2003, a definitive paper on SHS and lung cancer mortality was published in the British Medical Journal by Enstrom and Kabat.13 It is the largest and most detailed ever reported. The authors studied more than 35,000 California never smokers over a 39-year period and found no statistically significant association between exposure to SHS and lung cancer mortality.
    The Emperor Has No Clothes: The Truth about Secondhand Smoke | Heartland Institute
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  10. #140
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    Re: Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    Usually when I have a coffee or eat a chocolate bar I don't give people lung cancer; and it only affects me not the rest of society.
    No one said you have to stand next to someone that smokes or sit in an establishment that would allow it. What makes you so morally superior that allows you the right to deny another the use of a legal substance in a restaurant or bar or deny a business owner the choice of offering a smoke free establishment or allow smoking?

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