Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44:185]

Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

In the shooting death of Renisha McBride there are 3 charges levied against Theodore

Murder 2
Manslaughter
possession of a firearm during commission of a felony

which charges, if any, do you think he will be found guilty of going off what we currently know.

For more info here is a list of articles followed by a current facts list
Michigan homeowner charged in porch shooting death of 19-year-old woman | Fox News
Parents of woman killed in Detroit-area porch shooting can't imagine threat her daughter posed | Fox News
Michigan man charged with second-degree murder in Renisha McBride shooting | MSNBC
Parents of Renisha McBride on charges: 'I hope he spends the rest of his life in jail' - U.S. News
Detroit-area man charged with murder in woman's porch death - CNN.com
Renisha McBride's Alleged Shooter to Be Charged With Murder - ABC News
Homeowner charged in Michigan porch shooting - Washington Times
Theodore Wafer charged in death of Renisha McBride outside Detroit - The Washington Post
Homeowner charged for shooting woman who sought help | New York Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/16/us/michigan-homeowner-charged-in-renisha-mcbrides-death.html
Detroit-area man charged in killing woman on his porch
Theodore Paul Wafer Charged in Renisha McBride Shooting Death | TIME.com
White Detroit-area man charged with murder of black woman | Reuters


FACT LIST

-car wreck a little before 1am
-cell phone was dead
-911 was called to report accident by passer by/ neighbor
-People stopped to help driver
-driver is a 19yr old woman 5'4"
-driver was disoriented and bloody
-driver left scene
-driver returned to scene, 911 was called again to report this about 1:25
-cops and EMS show up to scene about 1:42, driver is gone
-driver left scene
-County prosecutor statement says the evidence shows driver knocked on locked screen door about a mile away and there is no evidence of forced entry
-home owner opened interior door
-home owner is 54yr old man, over 6ft and 200lbs
-driver was shot in the face through locked screen door
-911 was called to report shooting by home owner, home owner claims the following:
"Uh yes... I just shot somebody on my front porch with a shotgun, banging on my door." Wafer gives his address and ends the call by saying "thank you" and hanging up without giving city, even as ---police dispatch continued.
-911 dispatched police
-911 called homeowner back and he confirmed he shot someone he didnt know on his porch
-police arrive find driver on porch with large hole in face

autopsy confirms homicide and shot in face at a distance
toxicology reveals drinking and weed in driver

Murder 2 charges have been filed along with man slaughter and possession of a firearm during the attempted commission of a felony or commission of a felony.

anything else feel free to add with links

also any further audio of the 911 claims please post the official audio or transcript and ill gladly add them

more specifically the call back if anybody has found it.



In my opinion i think M2 is just for show its to help plea to a manslaughter charge.

Now based on whats above, i think manslaughter seems like a lock but until the trial more info we wont know.
for now im going with manslaughter and the gun charge.

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Don't know enough specifics.

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

From what's been reported it sounds as if he's guilty of something. But I don't know all the facts because all the facts are rarely divulged by the police or prosecutor and I haven't heard the other side yet. So my conclusion is, I don't know because I don't have enough information.

Now, that said, I find it hard to fathom why he shot her.

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

From the facts that are currently available to the public, I'd say he'll probably get at least manslaughter. There doesn't really seem to be any legitimate case for self defense here. They'll probably tack on the "possession of a firearm during commission of a felony" because they like to do stuff like that. I doubt they'll get the murder charge to stick.

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Until more information about her actions is released, I'm going with innocent. She was drunk and stoned and all she did was knock on the door and wait for someone to answer? To much effort is being expended to make her look like a victim and not enough explaining what really went on.

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

His weapon in his possession went off and someone died that did not need to. Innocent (not guilty) is ruled out.

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

I figure there's more to the story, but from the information you posted, I'd be shocked if he's not convicted of manslaughter.

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

mak2 said:

His weapon in his possession went off and someone died that did not need to. Innocent (not guilty) is ruled out.

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"did not need to"? I guess that depends on your view. My view is that just the fact there is an 85% or greater chance she was a obama supporting liberal more than justifies it. If she was acting weird, which she was drunk and stoned, then I can see the old man being a bit edgy.

Personally, if he is a union supporting liberal, then burn him to the max and make it a twofer, if he ain't, give him a medal for helping clean up and improve America.

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

molten_dragon said:

From the facts that are currently available to the public, I'd say he'll probably get at least manslaughter. There doesn't really seem to be any legitimate case for self defense here. They'll probably tack on the "possession of a firearm during commission of a felony" because they like to do stuff like that. I doubt they'll get the murder charge to stick.

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I agree

going on what we know currently manslaughter seems like a lock but you are right more info could push it either way, he could have been justified but theres nothing that points in that direction yet.

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

mak2 said:

His weapon in his possession went off and someone died that did not need to. Innocent (not guilty) is ruled out.

Click to expand...

this does seem to be the case, currently theres no info that works in his favor but you are innocent until proven guilty. Just seems at this point innocent isnt possible unless other things come out.

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

In my opinion murder 2 (no plea) seems appropriate unless something comes out shows this girl was in some way a threat.

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Kreton said:

In my opinion murder 2 (no plea) seems appropriate unless something comes out shows this girl was in some way a threat.

Click to expand...

Murder 2 is a stretch.

By his own words he is guilty of manslaughter.

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Excon said:

Murder 2 is a stretch.

Click to expand...

Why? He shot someone in the face with a shotgun who by what we know so far was not a threat. What about that is not murder?

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Kreton said:

Why? He shot someone in the face with a shotgun who by what we know so far was not a threat. What about that is not murder?

Click to expand...

What do you mean why?

See edit.

Nor did she have to be an actual threat.

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

AGENT J said:

Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

In the shooting death of Renisha McBride there are 3 charges levied against Theodore

Murder 2
Manslaughter
possession of a firearm during commission of a felony

which charges, if any, do you think he will be found guilty of going off what we currently know.

For more info here is a list of articles followed by a current facts list
Michigan homeowner charged in porch shooting death of 19-year-old woman | Fox News
Parents of woman killed in Detroit-area porch shooting can't imagine threat her daughter posed | Fox News
Michigan man charged with second-degree murder in Renisha McBride shooting | MSNBC
Parents of Renisha McBride on charges: 'I hope he spends the rest of his life in jail' - U.S. News
Detroit-area man charged with murder in woman's porch death - CNN.com
Renisha McBride's Alleged Shooter to Be Charged With Murder - ABC News
Homeowner charged in Michigan porch shooting - Washington Times
Theodore Wafer charged in death of Renisha McBride outside Detroit - The Washington Post
Homeowner charged for shooting woman who sought help | New York Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/16/us/michigan-homeowner-charged-in-renisha-mcbrides-death.html
Detroit-area man charged in killing woman on his porch
Theodore Paul Wafer Charged in Renisha McBride Shooting Death | TIME.com
White Detroit-area man charged with murder of black woman | Reuters


FACT LIST

-car wreck a little before 1am
-cell phone was dead
-911 was called to report accident by passer by/ neighbor
-People stopped to help driver
-driver is a 19yr old woman 5'4"
-driver was disoriented and bloody
-driver left scene
-driver returned to scene, 911 was called again to report this about 1:25
-cops and EMS show up to scene about 1:42, driver is gone
-driver left scene
-County prosecutor statement says the evidence shows driver knocked on locked screen door about a mile away and there is no evidence of forced entry
-home owner opened interior door
-home owner is 54yr old man, over 6ft and 200lbs
-driver was shot in the face through locked screen door
-911 was called to report shooting by home owner, home owner claims the following:
"Uh yes... I just shot somebody on my front porch with a shotgun, banging on my door." Wafer gives his address and ends the call by saying "thank you" and hanging up without giving city, even as ---police dispatch continued.
-911 dispatched police
-911 called homeowner back and he confirmed he shot someone he didnt know on his porch
-police arrive find driver on porch with large hole in face

autopsy confirms homicide and shot in face at a distance
toxicology reveals drinking and weed in driver

Murder 2 charges have been filed along with man slaughter and possession of a firearm during the attempted commission of a felony or commission of a felony.

anything else feel free to add with links

also any further audio of the 911 claims please post the official audio or transcript and ill gladly add them

more specifically the call back if anybody has found it.



In my opinion i think M2 is just for show its to help plea to a manslaughter charge.

Now based on whats above, i think manslaughter seems like a lock but until the trial more info we wont know.

for now im going with manslaughter and the gun charge.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Sounds like a good call to me based on what we know now.

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Murder 2 won't happen. Man 1 seems most appropriate. Perhaps a plead to IM, although I thought Zimmerman should've pled to IM instead of going to trial - and he got off.

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Manslaughter if he's contrite and co-operative. Murder otherwise, no plea bargain.

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Gipper said:

Murder 2 won't happen. Man 1 seems most appropriate. Perhaps a plead to IM, although I thought Zimmerman should've pled to IM instead of going to trial - and he got off.

Click to expand...

There is no man1 in Michigan.

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Excon said:

There is no man1 in Michigan.

Click to expand...

No manslaughter at all, or no degrees of it?

In my 29 years in Michigan, I was never arrested. I'm not intimately familiar.

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Gipper said:

No manslaughter at all, or no degrees of it?

Click to expand...

:shock: I wouldn't have said he was guilty of Manslaughter if there was no manslaughter.
Manslaughter by law. Section 750.321
(voluntary or involuntary) By jury instruction with a finding of, by the jury, or Judge if a Bench Trial.

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Kreton said:

In my opinion murder 2 (no plea) seems appropriate unless something comes out shows this girl was in some way a threat.

Click to expand...

Currently i do think murder two is a tough order

but i guess with the perfect push and depending on what Michigan law actually says definition 2 below could be possible.

Second Degree Murder Overview - FindLaw

Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as: 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion"; or 2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life. Second-degree murder may best be viewed as the middle ground between first-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter.

Click to expand...

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life

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TO me this case is this to the letter.

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Kreton said:

TO me this case is this to the letter.

Click to expand...

1.) That isn't Michigan Law you are quoting.
2.) He was in a situation where he thought someone was trying to break in when the firearm accidentally discharged.
Bringing a firearm to protect yourself is not having a lack of concern for human life, nor is an accidental discharge.

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Unless something fairly compelling comes out, He will plea to Manslaughter, everything else will be dropped.
The weapons charge is garbage and is a typical "throw everything out there and hope something sticks"

Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Kreton said:

TO me this case is this to the letter.

Click to expand...

and this might be what they try to sell but for me until we know more

"dangerous conduct"
"obvious lack of concern for human life"

those things make it hard for me to say its a lock, gotta remember innocent until guilty and so far i dont see the "obvious" lack of concern. and im not sure about the exact wording in mich.

but what will play a large role in that is one fact "he shot through the door" and the rest total speculation

since day one theres been some buzz about the body being moved and about when 911 was actually called after the shooting. That could play into it easy. But again none of that may be true.