View Poll Results: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not based on what we know?

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Thread: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44:185]

  1. #71
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    There was nothing to clarify as it had been made clear previously that it was an accidental discharge, which "is not "him" doing anything".

    Which tells me you are not paying attention to that which came before.


    You are assuming facts not in evidence.
    You have no idea if he did, or didn't look through a peep-hole. Or whether he did or didn't see anyone if he did.
    You have no idea if she was still banging on the door when he opened it or not.

    When investigating someone banging on your door which sounds to you like someone trying to break-in, opening the door with the gun pointed in that direction is a reasonable thing to do.

    But he does not have to call the cops and is entitled to defend his self and his property.
    He claims accidental discharge, though I do not see that as evidence but instead as a claim not yet proven.
    You are assuming that claim as evidence, not me, so I guess it's you who are assuming.
    I have no idea what he did, and therefore I was discussing what he should have done if he was intending on answering the door with a weapon in his hand at 2am.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    You made your point by asking.
    Your question was answered. You have no other point.
    Your bully tactics discredit you you know.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

  3. #73
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Homeowners get the benefit of the doubt on their own property. I'll even give you some numbers to old cop buddies of mine who will tell you that if you shoot someone, drag them inside your house and you're golden.
    No, you are not GOLDEN you are SCREWED! That is an old wives tale. It is called "altering a crime scene" or "tampering with evidence".
    A person who is convicted of the crime under federal law may face a prison sentence of not more than 20 years, a fine, or both. (18 U.S.C. § 1519.)
    Evidence Tampering Lawyers | Stephen S. Weinstein PC | New Jersey Criminal Defense Attorneys( yes, I know this is a NJ lawtyer and not Mich, but it does not matter in this case)

    Examples of Evidence Tampering

    The following examples involve physical evidence that is, or was to be used, in an investigation or official proceeding such as a trial or hearing, or was tampered with during any stage of an investigation or proceeding.
    •Deleting emails that could be used in an investigation
    •Shredding subpoenaed documents
    •Falsifying business records to be used in an official proceeding
    •Altering a videotape or photograph depicting wrongdoing or which may be incriminating
    •Concealing or destroying illegal drugs while stopped for a traffic offense or while being searched
    •Altering, moving, planting or destroying evidence at a crime scene
    •Surreptitiously repairing or destroying a vehicle knowingly involved in a hit-and-run accident
    •Preparing a false document to deliberately mislead a public official
    Then because the officer will most likely ask about the body, and you say "that is where he fell" or something like that, you have committed another crime "Providing false information to peace officer conducting criminal investigation"

    Please stop giving legal advice.

    Here is the Mich Code:
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/
    750.483a(6)(a)

    Pub ord

    F

    Tampering with evidence or offering false evidence

    4

    (5) A person shall not do any of the following:(a) Knowingly and intentionally remove, alter, conceal, destroy, or otherwise tamper with evidence to be
    offered in a present or future official proceeding.
    (b) Offer evidence at an official proceeding that he or she recklessly disregards as false.
    (6) A person who violates subsection (5) is guilty of a crime as follows:
    (a) Except as provided in subdivision (b), the person is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for
    not more than 4 years or a fine of not more than $5,000.00, or both.
    (b) If the violation is committed in a criminal case for which the maximum term of imprisonment for the
    violation is more than 10 years, or the violation is punishable by imprisonment for life or any term of years,
    the person is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 10 years or a fine of not more
    than $20,000.00, or both.
    Last edited by Chiefgator; 11-24-13 at 05:35 PM. Reason: Added Mich code
    As a dreamer of dreams and a travellin' man, I have chalked up many a mile.
    Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks and I've learned much from both of their styles!

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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    At two in the morning. Yes, I'd have 911 on the line, and of course they wouldn't actually call the police unless there was a need. Didn't you know you could do that? You can call and say, I don't know if I need, will you stick with me on the line in case I do? They surprisingly say, yes.

    First y'all nutjobs want to make a big deal about how it was 2am, then when it's convenient you want to dis people by suggesting 2am is the same as the time of day Watchtower idiots ring the bell. No wonder no one with any sensibilities can take y'all seriously.
    I was being a smartass intentionally. However, my premise is that it's very presumptuous that you would have 911 ready in a flash for someone knocking on the door. The fact that she was audibly knocking on the front door is probably his biggest strike against him, since thieves aren't known for announcing their presence before "going to work".

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    Says you! (kidding) No, I'm not. I am just saying that it seems wrong to take the word of the only living witness who also happens to be the shooter. You can't really argue with that point.


    There is a difference between sharing opinions about what may or may not have taken place, what should and should not be considered and how the legal process will handle it. Like Casey Anthony, everyone speculated that she was guilty but because in a courtroom your speculations are filtered through the law the outcome is not guilty. They are different conversations.


    Where did I say anything at all about what HE did or did not do?
    Maybe I didn't read enough of your post(s), but it almost seems like you were manufacturing a motive by trying to read his mind and, therefore, his intentions. It's part of that liberal curse - where you use emotion instead of evidence or rationale. I don't hold it against you.

  5. #75
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    He claims accidental discharge, though I do not see that as evidence but instead as a claim not yet proven.
    You are assuming that claim as evidence, not me, so I guess it's you who are assuming.
    I have no idea what he did, and therefore I was discussing what he should have done if he was intending on answering the door with a weapon in his hand at 2am.

    His statement is evidence. Period.
    Your musings are not.

    And you saying what he should have done is absurd.
    He trained his firearm in the direction of the threat.
    That is normal and fine to do.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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  6. #76
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    Your bully tactics discredit you you know.
    iLOL

    I see you are still unable to focus on actual evidence, the topic, and what was said, huh?
    Figures.

    And that bully tactic of yours, isn't going to work.
    Last edited by Excon; 11-24-13 at 05:32 PM.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefgator View Post
    No, you are not GOLDEN you are SCREWED! That is an old wives tale. It is called "altering a crime scene" or "tampering with evidence".


    Evidence Tampering Lawyers | Stephen S. Weinstein PC | New Jersey Criminal Defense Attorneys( yes, I know this is a NJ lawtyer and not Mich, but it does not matter in this case)



    Then because the officer will most likely ask about the body, and you say "that is where he fell" or something like that, you have committed another crime "Providing false information to peace officer conducting criminal investigation"

    Please stop giving legal advice.

  8. #78
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    I cannot see YouTube videos on a Govt Computer. I have no idea what you are trying to say.
    As a dreamer of dreams and a travellin' man, I have chalked up many a mile.
    Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks and I've learned much from both of their styles!

  9. #79
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    The fact that she was audibly knocking on the front door is probably his biggest strike against him, since thieves aren't known for announcing their presence before "going to work".
    Yet banging, which the only witness says it was, can sound like someone is trying to break-in. So it wouldn't be a strike.
    But the cause/reason he armed himself.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    I was being a smartass intentionally. However, my premise is that it's very presumptuous that you would have 911 ready in a flash for someone knocking on the door. The fact that she was audibly knocking on the front door is probably his biggest strike against him, since thieves aren't known for announcing their presence before "going to work".
    I didn't catch the sarcasm. And to your suggestion that it's presumptuous... WHY? It's f'ing 2am and I'm going to answer a door or open a door to a stranger when I live alone and all the neighbor houses are either dark or too far away to know, and I'm going to be STUPID enough to do that without calling 911....sorry but that's just plain stupid, unless I'm a 6ft+ 220lb+ well trained in some form of defense person. Iirc, the man was elderly and the impression is given that he was frail-ish, though I'm not sure where I have that opinion from.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

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