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Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44:185]

Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not based on what we know?

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Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Excon said:
iLOL No they will not. Not all accidents are caused by negligence.
Click to expand...

Only way there can be an accidental discharge is if there was a mechanical failure. If the gun was fired by the pulling of the trigger, he will be found to be negligent.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44]

Excon said:
False. And pretty damn lazy.
You are quoting the reporters interpretation of her words in the press conference, not her actual words like I did.

If you think differently
Link to it specifically.

The only article you provided saying any such thing was the first link.
A report on the Press Conference. You know, the one from which I quoted her exact words. Duh!

That first link you provided is the following, and no, what you say it is not in any of the other ones.
Michigan homeowner charged in porch shooting death of 19-year-old woman | Fox News

The following is from the above article which you falsely attribute to being a quote of the prosecutor instead of the reporter.
She said evidence showed McBride knocked on the locked screen door, and that there was no evidence of forced entry.​
Those are the reporters words.
Nowhere in that statement (the one you provided) is there a direct quote of the Prosecutor. Nowhere!
Again; Those are the reporters words.

What the prosecutor said, is exactly as I previously provided, not what what you erroneously attributed to her.

It is really sad that we have to go through all of this just because you can't admit you are wrong.



So everybody can see who quoted the Prosecutor accurately and who didn't.
I have put it the quote box so it stands out this time.
Click to expand...


the topic is not me stay on topic and use facts

you made another post and nothing has changed, no facts have been impacted, her statement is as stands and no proof has been provide otherwise
translation: there is zero proof the prosecutor lied

here it is again: here exact words not what a reporter said, that lie will never work

Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy "evidence showed McBride, of Detroit, knocked on the locked screen door of Wafer’s home and that there was no evidence of forced entry."

Do you have any facts that show the prosecutor is lying?
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Chiefgator said:
Only way there can be an accidental discharge is if there was a mechanical failure. If the gun was fired by the pulling of the trigger, he will be found to be negligent.
Click to expand...
I believe I am on record as saying he is guilty of manslaughter by his own words.

But you bring up negligence...
I am also on the record as saying that his actions of arming himself and being ready is reasonable give the situation he believed he was in.
So being startled causing an involuntary pull the trigger is also an accident. Not negligence under the law, because you can not claim he should not have been startled, or that he should not have been at ready given the situation he believed he was in.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44]

AGENT J said:
Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy "evidence showed McBride, of Detroit, knocked on the locked screen door of Wafer’s home and that there was no evidence of forced entry."
Click to expand...
Yes it is about you continually providing false info.
Which you just did again.
And no link proving what you say. Figures.

She did not say what you say she did, as proven.


What she said is exactly what I provided.
The following is the accurate quote. Not what you provided.Duh!

"It's alleged she was shot to death by the home owner after she knocked on his locked front screen door." ​
 
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Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

AGENT J said:
Knocking Vs Banging

i know there are some lawyers out there, cops etc

is there anybody that has any links and facts that suggest that knocking and banging are legally different?

this is not about:
saying he wasnt allowed to bring his gun to the door to investigate, he was, his gun, his door
saying he wasnt allowed to think somebody could be breaking in or had no reason too, he could have


what is being discussed/asked is, that without other evidence the banging vs knocking alone is meaningless legally.

by themselves there is no legal difference im aware of, does anybody know of something different?

now if there was evidence of foot prints on the door, dents from an object or evidence of attempted forced entry then we have something but alone with nothing else the LAW doesnt see them as different that im aware of.


Goshin? (ex cop)
Turtle? (lawyer i think)

i mean heck in general thats how people say cops come do the door, "banging on the door like your the police"

legally, alone are they different?
Click to expand...

the issue comes down to a reasonable belief. someone bashing your door as if they were trying to break it down is far different than the normal knock.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

TurtleDude said:
1.)the issue comes down to a reasonable belief.
2.) someone bashing your door as if they were trying to break it down is far different than the normal knock.
Click to expand...

1.) I agree 100%
2.) I also agree 100% and there would be be further evidence of such to make "reasonable" no?
also and this is just my personal opinion, if this was happening to me, "theres door being banged on so hard i think they are trying to break it down", i doubt i walk up to it and just throw it open, but again thats just me, has nothing to do with legality


so legally without evidence they are just terms by themselves
 
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Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44]

Excon said:
1.)Yes it is about you continually providing false info.
2.)Which you just did again.
3.) And no link proving what you say. Figures.
4.) She did not say what you say she did, as proven.
5.) What she said is exactly what I provided.
6.) The following is the accurate quote. Not what you provided.Duh!
"It's alleged she was shot to death by the home owner after she knocked on his locked front screen door." ​
Click to expand...

1.) no I am not the topic, stay on topic, nor was it done and theres zero factual proof of this proven false claim
2.) see #1
3.) already told you where to find it
4.) nothign provided by your post has changed the facts, nothing
5.) yes in an earlier video, which has zero impact on her statments
6.) facts already prove this wrong

Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy "evidence showed McBride, of Detroit, knocked on the locked screen door of Wafer’s home and that there was no evidence of forced entry."

please STAY ON TOPIC and let us know when there is any factual evidence the Wayne county prosecutor lied and based her statments on the family?
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

AGENT J said:
1.) I agree 100%
2.) I also agree 100% and there would be be further evidence of such to make "reasonable" no?
also and this is just my personal opinion, if this was happening to me, therea door being banged on so hard i think they are trying to break it down, i doubt i walk up to it and just through it open, but again thats just me, has nothing to do with legality


so legally without evidence they are just terms by themselves
Click to expand...

years ago, when I was a law/grad student, it was very late one night and one of my brothers was visiting me and we were playing chess. a strange noise came from the front door-hard to describe. so I picked my walther PPK up and snuck out the back and told my brother to call the cops. some guy was trying to force open the door with a long screw driver. I held him till the local constabulary showed up. The cops told the asshole he was lucky I didn't shoot him through the door. THe mope said why and the cop said-"once you tried to break into his home he could shoot your ass"

I am glad I didn't
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44]

AGENT J said:
Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy "evidence showed McBride, of Detroit, knocked on the locked screen door of Wafer’s home and that there was no evidence of forced entry."

please STAY ON TOPIC and let us know when there is any factual evidence the Wayne county prosecutor lied and based her statments on the family?
Click to expand...
I am on topic. And you are factually providing false info.

You are misrepresenting what the article you provided says.
Saying so is not personal in nature.
And that does not make it about you.

Pay attention. She did not say what you quote her as saying.
Do you not understand that she did not say that?


And you can not provide any news source link with a quote of her saying that, as it does not exist.


She did not say what you say she did, as proven.

What she said is exactly what I provided.
The following is the accurate quote. Not what you provided.Duh!

"It's alleged she was shot to death by the home owner after she knocked on his locked front screen door." ​


And it has absolutely nothing to do with being an earlier video or not.
It is the video of the press conference which is being reported upon.
And what you provided is not accurate, it isn't even in any of the article you linked. At this point all I can do is assume it is on purpose, as you have already been informed that you got it wrong.

Yet you keep insisting that it is accurate when it isn't.
 
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Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Excon said:
I believe I am on record as saying he is guilty of manslaughter by his own words.

But you bring up negligence...
I am also on the record as saying that his actions of arming himself and being ready is reasonable give the situation he believed he was in.
So being startled causing an involuntary pull the trigger is also an accident. Not negligence under the law, because you can not claim he should not have been startled, or that he should not have been at ready given the situation he believed he was in.
Click to expand...

And I agree with you all the way up to the fact that he was negligent.
He had every right to answer the door with the gun (as I probably would have done and my wife certainly would have done). If his finger was on the trigger and pulled it when he was startled, that is negligence.

From the evidence that is available, I believe that he will plead to Manslaughter or possibly Negligent Homicide and will lose (or settle) a Civil case for Wrongful Death to her family.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Gipper said:
....
Click to expand...

Violent (and potentially violent) situations can't be viewed in a vacuum; they often require spur-of-the-moment decisions. You really do it an injustice by looking back on it with 20-20 hindsight and pretend that the same clarity can be used at that moment in time.
Click to expand...

The problem is that something that is not a violent situation is perceived as one. It is that misperception that takes a non-violent situation to a violent one. In both of these cases it was the perception or perceived threat that brought the violence into it. I think that if a person is given a green light to use their own judgement to determine if a threat is present they will be more inclined to do so when there is no real threat and behave accordingly.


That hurts. I know you don't think I take a "black - must be guilty" stance
Click to expand...
I smell a rat.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44]

Excon said:
1.) I am on topic and yes it does have to do with you.
2.) You are misrepresenting what the article you provided says. Saying so is not personal in nature, but it does have to do with what you are doing.
3.) Pay attention. She did not say what you quote her as saying.
4.) Do you not understand that she did not say that?
5.) And you can not provide any link with a quote of her saying that, as it does not exist.
6.) She did not say what you say she did, as proven.
7.) What she said is exactly what I provided.
The following is the accurate quote. Not what you provided.Duh!

"It's alleged she was shot to death by the home owner after she knocked on his locked front screen door." ​


8.)And it has absolutely nothing to do with being an earlier video or not.
9.) It is the video of the press conference which is being reported upon.
10.) And what you provided is not accurate
11.) it isn't even in any of the article you linked.
12.) At this point all I can do is assume it is on purpose, as you have already been informed that you got it wrong.
13.) Yet you keep insisting that it is accurate when it isn't.
Click to expand...

1.) false "I" am not the topic, stay on topic
2.) false this made up story has already been proven false
3.) yes we know this claim as been made and it continues to be made but facts show otherwise
4.) i understand facts and the fact is she did make that statement and it is quoted
5.) false its already done in the many links i have provided, even if you bold it and color your statement the fact remains it has still been provided
6.) false there has been ZERO proof provided she lied and did not say that comment all that was provide was an earlier video, nothing else
7.) yes the earlier video did say that which has zero impact on her later statments
8.) provided facts already prove this statement false
9.) yes everybody knows that and this was not her "only" statments hence why her later quote still stands and cant be proven false
10.) yes its actually accurate as already proved
11.) this is 100% false as facts already proved, posting lies dont make them true
12.) this claim keeps being made but it i s supported by ZERO facts
13.) not me, facts make it so

once again no facts have changed
Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy "evidence showed McBride, of Detroit, knocked on the locked screen door of Wafer’s home and that there was no evidence of forced entry."

please STAY ON TOPIC and let us know when there is any factual evidence the Wayne county prosecutor lied and based her statments on the family?
 
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Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

AGENT J said:
at this moment its factually not because theres no evidence that shows the "banging" was anything aggressive, theres no signs/evidence of forced entry or attempted forced entry. At this point its a meaningless acronym.

COuld that change? yes if theres MORE evidence and facts we dont know about but unless that happens it holds zero weight.
Click to expand...

Precisely, yet many are.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

Chiefgator said:
And I agree with you all the way up to the fact that he was negligent.
He had every right to answer the door with the gun (as I probably would have done and my wife certainly would have done). If his finger was on the trigger and pulled it when he was startled, that is negligence.

From the evidence that is available, I believe that he will plead to Manslaughter or possibly Negligent Homicide and will lose (or settle) a Civil case for Wrongful Death to her family.
Click to expand...
First of all there is no negligent homicide.
It is either Murder 1 or 2. Or Manslaughter by law, with it (by jury instruction) being voluntary or involuntary as found by the jury.

So we disagree on the following, being startled is an accident, not negligence, because you can not say someone can not be startled.
It is not something that can be avoided or something that is negligent behavior.
Having his finger on the trigger in what he believed the situation is not negligent, but wise.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44]

AGENT J said:
1.) false "I" am not the topic, stay on topic
2.) false this made up story has already been proven false
3.) yes we know this claim as been made and it continues to be made but facts show otherwise
4.) i understand facts and the fact is she did make that statement and it is quoted
5.) false its already done in the many links i have provided, even if you bold it and color your statement the fact remains it has still been provided
6.) false there has been ZERO proof provided she lied and did not say that comment all that was provide was an earlier video, nothing else
7.) yes the earlier video did say that which has zero impact on her later statments
8.) provided facts already prove this statement false
9.) yes everybody knows that and this was not her "only" statments hence why her later quote still stands and cant be proven false
10.) yes its actually accurate as already proved
11.) this is 100% false as facts already proved, posting lies dont make them true
12.) this claim keeps being made but it i s supported by ZERO facts
13.) not me, facts make it so

once again no facts have changed
Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy "evidence showed McBride, of Detroit, knocked on the locked screen door of Wafer’s home and that there was no evidence of forced entry."

please STAY ON TOPIC and let us know when there is any factual evidence the Wayne county prosecutor lied and based her statments on the family?
Click to expand...
More absurdities. Figures.

Link to her statement.

Because all you are doing is spewing garbage in an effort to deflect form being wrong.


And again.

Excon said:
The only article you provided saying any such thing was the first link.
A report on the Press Conference. You know, the one from which I quoted her exact words. Duh!

That first link you provided is the following, and no, what you say it is not in any of the other ones.
Michigan homeowner charged in porch shooting death of 19-year-old woman | Fox News

The following is from the above article which you falsely attribute to being a quote of the prosecutor instead of the reporter.
She said evidence showed McBride knocked on the locked screen door, and that there was no evidence of forced entry.​
Those are the reporters words.
Nowhere in that statement (the one you provided) is there a direct quote of the Prosecutor. Nowhere!
Again; Those are the reporters words.

What the prosecutor said, is exactly as I previously provided, not what what you erroneously attributed to her.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44]

Excon said:
1.)More absurdities. Figures.
2.) Link to her statement.
3.) Because all you are doing is spewing garbage in an effort to deflect form being wrong.
4.)And again.

​
Click to expand...

1.) another claim that cant be backed up with any facts
2.) already done, denying this fact doesnt change it
3.) see #1
4.) yep her early video that is meaningless to the facts

once again no facts have changed
Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy "evidence showed McBride, of Detroit, knocked on the locked screen door of Wafer’s home and that there was no evidence of forced entry."

please STAY ON TOPIC and let us know when there is any factual evidence the Wayne county prosecutor lied and based her statments on the family?
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44]

AGENT J said:
once again no facts have changed
Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy "evidence showed McBride, of Detroit, knocked on the locked screen door of Wafer’s home and that there was no evidence of forced entry."
Click to expand...
Already backed up with facts showing you were wrong.
As it has already been proven, when are you going to recognize that what you provided is false?
What you provided above is false. Those are the reporters words. Period.
Nowhere in that statement is there a direct quote of the Prosecutor. Nowhere!
Again; Those are the reporters words.

Excon said:
The only article you provided saying any such thing was the first link.
A report on the Press Conference. You know, the one from which I quoted her exact words. Duh!

That first link you provided is the following, and no, what you say it is not in any of the other ones.
Michigan homeowner charged in porch shooting death of 19-year-old woman | Fox News

The following is from the above article which you falsely attribute to being a quote of the prosecutor instead of the reporter.
She said evidence showed McBride knocked on the locked screen door, and that there was no evidence of forced entry.​
Those are the reporters words.
Nowhere in that statement (the one you provided) is there a direct quote of the Prosecutor. Nowhere!
Again; Those are the reporters words.

What the prosecutor said, is exactly as I previously provided, not what what you erroneously attributed to her.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44]

Excon said:
1.)Already backed up with facts showing you were wrong.
2.) As it has already been proven, when are you going to recognize that what you provided is false?
3.) What you provided above is false. Period.
Click to expand...

1.) this statement is wrong proven by thread history, links and facts
2.) see #1, I am not the topic stay on topic
3.) posting an opinion that the facts that were provided are wrong doesnt negate them from being 100% true and factual

sorry no facts have changed
this is the factual statement and quote:
Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy "evidence showed McBride, of Detroit, knocked on the locked screen door of Wafer’s home and that there was no evidence of forced entry."

please STAY ON TOPIC and let us know when there is any factual evidence the Wayne county prosecutor lied, based her statments on the family of those are not her statments?
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44]

AGENT J said:
this is the factual statement and quote:
Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy "evidence showed McBride, of Detroit, knocked on the locked screen door of Wafer’s home and that there was no evidence of forced entry."
Click to expand...
No it is not.
You have been asked repeatedly to support you assertion yet have failed each and every time.

What you hold out to be true is actually false as proven.
What you provided above is false. Those are the reporters words. Period.
Nowhere in that statement is there a direct quote of the Prosecutor. Nowhere!
Again; Those are the reporters words.

Excon said:
The only article you provided saying any such thing was the first link.
A report on the Press Conference. You know, the one from which I quoted her exact words. Duh!

That first link you provided is the following, and no, what you say it is not in any of the other ones.
Michigan homeowner charged in porch shooting death of 19-year-old woman | Fox News

The following is from the above article which you falsely attribute to being a quote of the prosecutor instead of the reporter.
She said evidence showed McBride knocked on the locked screen door, and that there was no evidence of forced entry.​
Those are the reporters words.
Nowhere in that statement (the one you provided) is there a direct quote of the Prosecutor. Nowhere!
Again; Those are the reporters words.

What the prosecutor said, is exactly as I previously provided, not what what you erroneously attributed to her.
Click to expand...


These are the Prosecutors actual words. Not the crap you provided.
"It's alleged she was shot to death by the home owner after she knocked on his locked front screen door."​
 
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Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44]

Excon said:
1.)No it is not.
2.)You have been asked repeatedly to support you assertion yet have failed each and every time.
3.) What you hold out to be true is actually false as proven.
4.) What you provided above is false.
5.) Those are the reporters words. Period.
6.) Nowhere in that statement is there a direct quote of the Prosecutor. Nowhere!
7.) Again; Those are the reporters words.

​


These are the Prosecutors actual words. Not the crap you provided.
"It's alleged she was shot to death by the home owner after she knocked on his locked front screen door."​
Click to expand...

1.) facts disagree with that opinion
2.) facts, links and quotes all prove this fallacy false
3.) again has nothing to do with me, the facts i posted remain and nothing has proved otherwise
4.) this false claim keeps being repeated but no facts support it, facts prove the opposite
5.) this false claim also keeps being repeated but no facts support it, facts prove the opposite
6.) this is just a blatant fallacy, facts, links and quotes all prove otherwise
7.) see #5 and #6

again I am not the topic, nor are my opinions PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC

sorry no facts have changed
this is the factual statement and quote:
Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy "evidence showed McBride, of Detroit, knocked on the locked screen door of Wafer’s home and that there was no evidence of forced entry."

if there is any factual evidence the Wayne county prosecutor lied, based her statments on the family or those are not her statments please provide these facts.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44]

keeping with facts does anybody think his two different/changing statments are a factor?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wafer told police at his home immediately after the shooting that he heard somebody banging on his door and he though maybe somebody was trying to break in, he opened the main front door and the gun went off accidentally shooting through the closed and locked screen door.

Wafer, in his later statement at the Police Department that is on video, said that he had earlier issues with somebody who shot his vehicle with a paint ball gun. He did not report that to the police, he just wiped the paint off.

Wafer also said someone was knocking on his front and side door and he thought it might have been those people.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

does anybody think this will be a factor? i dont think it matters personally, it just seems like more info to me not really a "changed" statement


I think the only way these statments come into effect is he did state it was an accident and they will have to tow the line around that statement, cant stray to far from it
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44]

AGENT J said:
1.) facts disagree with that opinion
2.) facts, links and quotes all prove this fallacy false
3.) again has nothing to do with me, the facts i posted remain and nothing has proved otherwise
4.) this false claim keeps being repeated but no facts support it, facts prove the opposite
5.) this false claim also keeps being repeated but no facts support it, facts prove the opposite
6.) this is just a blatant fallacy, facts, links and quotes all prove otherwise
7.) see #5 and #6

again I am not the topic, nor are my opinions PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC

sorry no facts have changed
this is the factual statement and quote:
Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy "evidence showed McBride, of Detroit, knocked on the locked screen door of Wafer’s home and that there was no evidence of forced entry."

if there is any factual evidence the Wayne county prosecutor lied, based her statments on the family or those are not her statments please provide these facts.
Click to expand...
And you are still wrong as already proven.
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44]

So, as established and proven, these are the Prosecutors words ...

"It's alleged she was shot to death by the home owner after she knocked on his locked front screen door."​
(Actual words stated in the Press Conference.)


Not what is falsely quoted in the following.
(A reporters interpretation of the above statement as reported coming from the Press Conference.)
AGENT J said:
Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy "evidence showed McBride, of Detroit, knocked on the locked screen door of Wafer’s home and that there was no evidence of forced entry."
Click to expand...
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44]

Excon said:
And you are still wrong as already proven.
Click to expand...
continuing to make this claim with ZERO facts to support it doesnt make it true, there has been nothing posted that proves this statement to be true, there are things posted that prove the statement factually 100% wrong though
 
Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44]

Excon said:
Not what is falsely quoted in the following.
(A reporters interpretation of the above statement as reported coming from the Press Conference.)
​
Click to expand...

yes her exact words from here statement are as follows
Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy "evidence showed McBride, of Detroit, knocked on the locked screen door of Wafer’s home and that there was no evidence of forced entry."

there has been ZERO evidence provide that even suggest that these are not the words of the prosecutor or the words of a reporter, it is a direct quote from her statement. If theres any factual evidence proving otherwise simple post it, so far ZERO had been posted.
 
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