View Poll Results: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not based on what we know?

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  • Murder 2

    10 26.32%
  • Manslaughter

    23 60.53%
  • Possession of a firearm during commission of a felony

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Thread: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44:185]

  1. #51
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    but his actions after opening the door resulted in him shooting her.
    An accidental discharge is not "him" doing anything. And the discharge may have happened as he opened the door.


    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    If she was shot from a distance, it wasn't self defense.
    She was shot from a distance.

    What that distance is, remains to be seen.

    The Prosecution leaves it up to your imagination to try this person in the media. While the Police report I linked to suggests that the distance was closer, rather than further.
    Her feet where still on the porch, and that porch isn't that wide/long.
    What ever distance she was from the door on one side, and what ever distance the gun was from the door on the other side, would be the distance. What would that be? About two to four feet?

    Police Report
    Pg. 15
    I observed Decedent McBride lying face up on the porch (feet within a few feet of the front door & head partially obscured by a bush). McBride suffered a large wound to the center of the face/head, consistent with a closer range shotgun blast.
    http://s3.documentcloud.org/document...ase-report.pdf
    Please keep in mind that the above is an observation, not a measurement.



    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    So...that leaves manslaughter--he killed her, probably on purpose, but not with malice of aforethought.
    No information exists to suggest it was on purpose.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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  2. #52
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    An accidental discharge is not "him" doing anything. And the discharge may have happened as he opened the door.


    She was shot from a distance.

    What that distance is, remains to be seen.

    The Prosecution leaves it up to your imagination to try this person in the media. While the Police report I linked to suggests that the distance was closer, rather than further.
    Her feet where still on the porch, and that porch isn't that wide/long.
    What ever distance she was from the door on one side, and what ever distance the gun was from the door on the other side, would be the distance. What would that be? About two to four feet?

    Police Report
    Pg. 15
    I observed Decedent McBride lying face up on the porch (feet within a few feet of the front door & head partially obscured by a bush). McBride suffered a large wound to the center of the face/head, consistent with a closer range shotgun blast.
    http://s3.documentcloud.org/document...ase-report.pdf
    Please keep in mind that the above is an observation, not a measurement.



    No information exists to suggest it was on purpose.
    He doesn't respond like it was an accident. There's no, "OMG! My gun went off." Or "I don't know what happened." Lack of excited utterance, indicates that this was not an accident.

    Upon opening the door, he probably told her to vamoose. In her drunken state, she maybe mouthed off or even made a threatening move. He blasted her. Maybe that's even understandable given her drunken state.

    Her drunken state makes it hard for me to blame the shooter. Even if it looks like manslaughter, I'd probably cut him slack if I was on jury, give him lots of room re: reasonable doubt.

  3. #53
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    No one said it does.
    But it does go to whether or not it is likely she was banging on the door as the only witness said, or if she was knocking on the door which the family perpetrated and the Prosecutor adopted.
    Since when is banging on a door a shootable offense?
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Guilty or not, he has to be incarcerated for some period of time. This isn't middle-class suburban Florida. You know there's a riot if this guy walks. It's inevitable.

  5. #55
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Since when is banging on a door a shootable offense?
    Why us everyone so preoccupied with the banging??

    1- Banging is his word so if it carries any weight with anyone it is really not something that can be proven
    2- If the weight it carries for some, that it could be considered more startling and would indicate a higher exhibition of aggression on her part that is not fact either, it is conjecture. It is just as likely that she knocked hard to wake up the homeowner.

    Does not sound like something that should even be considered especially given all of the additional meaning that's being heaped onto it.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    Why us everyone so preoccupied with the banging??

    1- Banging is his word so if it carries any weight with anyone it is really not something that can be proven
    2- If the weight it carries for some, that it could be considered more startling and would indicate a higher exhibition of aggression on her part that is not fact either, it is conjecture. It is just as likely that she knocked hard to wake up the homeowner.

    Does not sound like something that should even be considered especially given all of the additional meaning that's being heaped onto it.
    Homeowners get the benefit of the doubt on their own property. I'll even give you some numbers to old cop buddies of mine who will tell you that if you shoot someone, drag them inside your house and you're golden.

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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    Why us everyone so preoccupied with the banging??

    1- Banging is his word so if it carries any weight with anyone it is really not something that can be proven
    2- If the weight it carries for some, that it could be considered more startling and would indicate a higher exhibition of aggression on her part that is not fact either, it is conjecture. It is just as likely that she knocked hard to wake up the homeowner.

    Does not sound like something that should even be considered especially given all of the additional meaning that's being heaped onto it.
    I believe that's the point I was trying to make in one sentence. I guess I didn't succeed. Thank you for elaborating.
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Homeowners get the benefit of the doubt on their own property. I'll even give you some numbers to old cop buddies of mine who will tell you that if you shoot someone, drag them inside your house and you're golden.
    If you are trying to look at the case in a genuinely objective way however, there is no way to know the truth about whether she was banging wildly on the door or knocking loud to wake someone up at 4:30 in the morning,(which makes sense). If you allow yourself to adopt as fact the homeowners representation of her behavior you are going to have a bias view of the events. Seems wrong.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    He doesn't respond like it was an accident. There's no, "OMG! My gun went off." Or "I don't know what happened." Lack of excited utterance, indicates that this was not an accident.
    An excited utterance would be immediately after the discharge.
    This is after the fact, when he called 911. Some folk collect themselves quicker than others.
    So his response sounds normal to me.

    Listen at the following link.
    Renisha McBride 911 call: 'I just shot somebody on my front porch' | MLive.com


    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Upon opening the door, he probably told her to vamoose. In her drunken state, she maybe mouthed off or even made a threatening move. He blasted her. Maybe that's even understandable given her drunken state.
    Did he say that is what happened?





    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Since when is banging on a door a shootable offense?
    Did I say it was?

    Secondly, an accidental discharge is not a purposeful shooting of anybody, for anything.

    But banging is reason enough to believe someone is trying to break in, and reasonable cause to arm yourself while investigating.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    If you are trying to look at the case in a genuinely objective way however, there is no way to know the truth about whether she was banging wildly on the door or knocking loud to wake someone up at 4:30 in the morning,(which makes sense). If you allow yourself to adopt as fact the homeowners representation of her behavior you are going to have a bias view of the events. Seems wrong.
    The problem here is that you're wanting to be omniscient. You can't be.

    He'll be judged by 12 people who can take into account actual evidence, and determine if he can be convicted on that and that alone.

    You're trying to convict on "I think he" or "he probably".

    He has a legitimate chance to walk because there just is not enough evidence to return a guilty verdict.

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