View Poll Results: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not based on what we know?

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    10 26.32%
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    23 60.53%
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Thread: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44:185]

  1. #111
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I'm not sure how this works though - can his defense just put him on the stand and have him say "I heard banging, and went to the door with my shotgun, which accidentally discharged"?

    And then the prosecution has to poke holes in his claim? I think that's how it works...so whether his claim is reasonable or not, it has to be proved wrong in order to convict him of something?
    The Mark, his claim of hearing banging goes directly to his thought that someone was trying to break in. Which is why he got his firearm and went to investigate.
    And yes, the defense attorney could put him on the stand and he may relate exactly that.
    And the Prosecutor will try and punch holes in it.
    If they can't punch enough holes in it to discredit it (or in other words, prove to the trier of fact) his version is going to stand as is.


    As it is right now, we are discussing what is known.
    The only witness said there was banging. That is the evidence that we have to go on. Period.

    The Prosecutor said in her press conference that "It's alleged she was shot to death by the home owner after she knocked on his locked front screen door." The only folks who had alleged such has been the family.

    The only evidence that would support knocking, would be an eye witness to such, yet none are present at this time.

    The only other evidence that may be available, is of her touching the door. Which really would not indicate whether done by knock or bang.

    All we really have is the eye witnesses account that she was banging on the door.





    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    He should walk because there is reasonable doubt. Why? Because the victim was drunk and on drugs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    By his own words he is guilty of manslaughter.

    THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
    Act 328 of 1931



    750.329 Discharging firearm pointed or aimed at another person resulting in death; manslaughter; exception; "peace officer" defined.

    Sec. 329.

    (1) A person who wounds, maims, or injures another person by discharging a firearm that is pointed or aimed intentionally but without malice at another person is guilty of manslaughter if the wounds, maiming, or injuries result in death.

    (2) This section does not apply to a peace officer of this state or another state, or of a local unit of government of this state or another state, or of the United States, performing his or her duties as a peace officer. As used in this section, "peace officer" means that term as defined in section 215.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    The Mark, his claim of hearing banging goes directly to his thought that someone was trying to break in. Which is why he got his firearm and went to investigate.
    And yes, the defense attorney could put him on the stand and he may relate exactly that.
    And the Prosecutor will try and punch holes in it.
    If they can't punch enough holes in it to discredit it (or in other words, prove to the trier of fact) his version is going to stand as is.


    As it is right now, we are discussing what is known.
    The only witness said there was banging. That is the evidence that we have to go on. Period.

    The Prosecutor said in her press conference that "It's alleged she was shot to death by the home owner after she knocked on his locked front screen door." The only folks who had alleged such has been the family.

    The only evidence that would support knocking, would be an eye witness to such, yet none are present at this time.

    The only other evidence that may be available, is of her touching the door. Which really would not indicate whether done by knock or bang.

    All we really have is the eye witnesses account that she was banging on the door.





    Slam dunk on manslaughter then...unless maybe he can show it was an act of self defense coupled with an accident.

  3. #113
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Slam dunk on manslaughter then...unless maybe he can show it was an act of self defense coupled with an accident.
    And I suspect that is what the defense will try to show, such as she had acted in an hostile fashion causing him to flinch.
    I suspect such because the defense attorney has already said he would be cleared/acquitted.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Slam dunk on manslaughter then...unless maybe he can show it was an act of self defense coupled with an accident.
    yep seems that way because theres no legal difference between knocking and banging its meaningless and theres zero evidence of anything else. The Country Prosecutor made a statment that the evidence shows the door was locked and she knocked on the door and theres no sign of forced entry.
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    And I suspect that is what the defense will try to show, such as she had acted in an hostile fashion causing him to flinch.
    I suspect such because the defense attorney has already said he would be cleared/acquitted.
    And therein lies the value to the defense of the fact that the victim had BAC which was over 10x the legal limit for a person under 21. She also left the scene of an accident, showing poor character and supporting any claim by the defense team that she acted erratic. So, considering the victim broke at least three laws that night: DUI, hit and run, and minor drinking, I like his chances.

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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44]

    just want to put everything in one place again and add that theres now curiosty about his story changing and being added too

    Current FACT LIST
    -car wreck a little before 1am
    -cell phone was dead
    -911 was called to report accident by passer by/ neighbor
    -People stopped to help driver
    -driver is a 19yr old woman 5'4"
    -driver was disoriented and bloody
    -driver left scene
    -driver returned to scene, 911 was called again to report this about 1:25
    -cops and EMS show up to scene about 1:42, driver is gone
    -driver left scene
    -County prosecutor (not the family attorney) statement says the evidence shows driver knocked on locked screen door about a mile away and there is no evidence of forced entry
    -home owner opened interior door
    -home owner is 54yr old man, over 6ft and 200lbs
    -driver was shot in the face through locked screen door
    -911 was called to report shooting by home owner, home owner claims the following:
    "Uh yes... I just shot somebody on my front porch with a shotgun, banging on my door." Wafer gives his address and ends the call by saying "thank you" and hanging up without giving city, even as ---police dispatch continued.
    -911 dispatched police
    -911 called homeowner back and he confirmed he shot someone he didnt know on his porch
    -police arrive find driver on porch with large hole in face

    autopsy confirms homicide and shot in face at a distance
    toxicology reveals drinking and weed in driver

    Murder 2 charges have been filed along with man slaughter and possession of a firearm during the attempted commission of a felony or commission of a felony.

    anything else feel free to add with links

    also any further audio of the 911 claims please post the official audio or transcript and ill gladly add them

    more specifically the call back if anybody has found it.

    addition are the two statments are this:

    Wafer told police at his home immediately after the shooting that he heard somebody banging on his door and he though maybe somebody was trying to break in, he opened the main front door and the gun went off accidentally shooting through the closed and locked screen door.
    Wafer, in his later statement at the Police Department that is on video, said that he had earlier issues with somebody who shot his vehicle with a paint ball gun. He did not report that to the police, he just wiped the paint off.
    Wafer also said someone was knocking on his front and side door and he thought it might have been those people.

    Theres speculation this could hurt because it impacts credibility, i really dont see this has a big deal but thats just my opinon

    also here are the quotes from the County Prosecutor

    "evidence showed McBride, of Detroit, knocked on the locked screen door of Wafer’s home and that there was no evidence of forced entry."

    " Evidence suggests that Wafer opened the front (interior) door before he fired through the closed and locked screen door"

    “Under Michigan law, there is no duty to retreat in your own home. However, someone who claims self-defense must honestly and reasonably believe that he is in imminent danger of either losing his life or suffering great bodily harm, and that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent that harm,”

    “This ‘reasonable belief,’ is not measured subjectively by the standards of the individual in question, but objectively, by the standards of a reasonable person.”

    “we have examined everything and after examining everything these are the appropriate charges and he did not act in lawful self-defense,”

    "We dont feel its relevant to our charges at all in this case" (talking about the driver being intoxicated)

    "Race was not a factor in her decision to bring charges against Theodore Wafer for the death of Renisha McBride"

    “No matter what kind of pressure you receive to not charge a case or to charge it, you don’t go by that,”

    “If the facts and evidence are leading you, then you can’t go wrong. If you are afraid to make those decisions, then you need not have this job. If you are afraid you will lose friends or lose influence or lose whatever — lose traction — then you don’t need to have this job, because you’ll make decisions based on the wrong things.”

    "We make our decisions based on the facts and the evidence"


    if anybody has any other facts to add with links please do so.
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    And therein lies the value to the defense of the fact that the victim had BAC which was over 10x the legal limit for a person under 21. She also left the scene of an accident, showing poor character and supporting any claim by the defense team that she acted erratic. So, considering the victim broke at least three laws that night: DUI, hit and run, and minor drinking, I like his chances.
    It is either plea or defend.
    And everyone knows there is a difference between banging and knocking, as they are defined differently, there is a legal difference, as they are two separate things.
    The banging goes directly to his thoughts that someone was trying to break-in.
    It is a reasonable thought from hearing such.
    So maybe he will get lucky in defending this.

    And the Prosecutor made no statement that the evidence was knocking. None. I provided what she said. It is nothing more than an allegation made by others that she used in a press conference. Without an eyewitness, the only possible thing the prosecutor could state is there is evidence that she touched the door, not how she touched it, because she was not there and has no one else who was.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    yep seems that way because theres no legal difference between knocking and banging its meaningless and theres zero evidence of anything else. The Country Prosecutor made a statment that the evidence shows the door was locked and she knocked on the door and theres no sign of forced entry.
    Correct. But. Juries are human. And when the defense paints the victim as a lawless thug on drugs, it won't be pretty.

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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Correct. But. Juries are human. And when the defense paints the victim as a lawless thug on drugs, it won't be pretty.
    It will not get that far. he will plead guilty to manslaughter before it goes to trial.
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It will not get that far. he will plead guilty to manslaughter before it goes to trial.
    That really depends on what his lawyers tell him and their confidence in clearing him of the charges.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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