View Poll Results: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not based on what we know?

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  • Murder 2

    10 26.32%
  • Manslaughter

    23 60.53%
  • Possession of a firearm during commission of a felony

    6 15.79%
  • Innocent

    4 10.53%
  • Other

    3 7.89%
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Thread: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not? [W:44:185]

  1. #91
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Martin was unarmed, last I checked. Also, we don't know if there was a proper "struggle". In Zimmerman and Martin, we had two able-bodied males that are more than capable of defending themselves and inflicting harm upon others. Here, we're talking about a weak old man and a drunk chick. Be it slugfest or slapfight, it's still a struggle.
    Through a locked door there's going to be a slapfest? Grasping at straws much? We have evidence in Martin case through both Zimmerman and Martin's girlfriend that a struggle ensued and a shot was fired after or during.
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Okay, thanks for that. As I was typing it occurred to me I didn't know why I had that impression, hence the disclaimer. Evenso, i
    You probably picked it up here. I have heard it tossed around a bit. It's funny how things like that progress. It started out rather innocent, the comment about age, then evolved into "he's a frail old man". Word of mouth is dangerous.

    f he felt unsure enough that he had a gun in his hand, he has the obligation to utilize other safety avenues before opening the door and pointing a gun in someone's face, making purposeful or accidental discharge likely to be deadly.
    At this point I completely agree with you. It seems irresponsible to me at this point.
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  3. #93
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    I'm not sure about M2 because she literally came to him and he called 911. Manslaughter without question though.

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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Through a locked door there's going to be a slapfest? Grasping at straws much? We have evidence in Martin case through both Zimmerman and Martin's girlfriend that a struggle ensued and a shot was fired after or during.
    So what you're contending is that he kept the chain on the door and only opened it far enough to stick a gun in the crack and shoot her? He was never exposed at any time?

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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    ....
    I'm not biased though.
    I was referring to the assumptions you made about what I was saying based on my political lean.

    I have no dog in this hunt. I just see what I see.
    Well that's reliable..

    It's the same reasoning behind my standpoint during GZ/TM the whole time. Zimmerman was wrong. Martin was wrong.
    It was a mistake to drive drunk, a mistake to wonder away from the car, but 19yr olds are prone to those kinds of mistakes. I don't know what we can say that SHE did wrong though. Wrong is a judgement (IE: shooting someone in the face is wrong.)

    This case isn't a whole lot different, other than - in this case - you actually could argue a limited detail of Castle Doctrine.
    The problem with that principle is that perceived threat is subjective and just because I THINK you are a threat doesn't mean you actually are. We are talking about the use of lethal force here. It needs some objectively legitimate grounds to justify it's use.

    The defense is going to poke enough holes into the case to get him to walk (witnesses hearing loud knocking at an ungodly hour, victim's tox screen, location of the incident, etc.).
    That's the problem, there is no one to counter his testimony; he killed her.


    I think race played some role in this (whether he just plain didn't like black people or just made an assumption about a black person on his doorstep in the middle of the night), but that alone isn't enough to convict
    Gip....is that you?
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    So what you're contending is that he kept the chain on the door and only opened it far enough to stick a gun in the crack and shoot her? He was never exposed at any time?
    Again, unless I'm entirely not remembering, he never unlocked his security screen door. He shot through the door. Perhaps he actually opened it, but in review of all the news, it says that no forced entry had happened and that she knocked on a locked screen door. At no point by either party is it expressed that the lock or the door were compromised or open/unlocked.
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    The problem with that principle is that perceived threat is subjective and just because I THINK you are a threat doesn't mean you actually are. We are talking about the use of lethal force here. It needs some objectively legitimate grounds to justify it's use.

    Objectively, believing that someone is trying to break into your home is reasonable, and enough to arm yourself.
    Accidental discharge then is where we are at.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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  8. #98
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    As everybody can see, agent j is wrong in his assertion.
    please feel free to point out "my" assertion, i havent made any, i have only stated facts backed up by quotes.

    After that id like to talk about your statement that has been factually proven wrong which was this:

    "The prosecution, adopted exactly what the family had been alleging (that she had been knocking)"

    theres ZERO factual evidence that says the the Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy deviated from evidence/protocol and adopted the family's "opinion" to bring charges against the home owner, she doesn't work for the parents, she doesn't represent the family. Her job is the county proscuter, she brings charges against people for the county.

    Gerald Thurswell is the attorney who represents McBride’s family.

    Again if you have any factual evidence of this please provide it, currently facts and evidence and quotes and the investigation prove it wrong.
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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    The problem with that principle is that perceived threat is subjective and just because I THINK you are a threat doesn't mean you actually are. We are talking about the use of lethal force here. It needs some objectively legitimate grounds to justify it's use.
    Violent (and potentially violent) situations can't be viewed in a vacuum; they often require spur-of-the-moment decisions. You really do it an injustice by looking back on it with 20-20 hindsight and pretend that the same clarity can be used at that moment in time.

    That's the problem, there is no one to counter his testimony; he killed her.
    That's often a problem in situations like this.

    Gip....is that you?
    That hurts. I know you don't think I take a "black - must be guilty" stance.

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    Re: Theodore Wafer, shooter of Renisha McBride, conviction or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    Why us everyone so preoccupied with the banging??

    1- Banging is his word so if it carries any weight with anyone it is really not something that can be proven
    2- If the weight it carries for some, that it could be considered more startling and would indicate a higher exhibition of aggression on her part that is not fact either, it is conjecture. It is just as likely that she knocked hard to wake up the homeowner.

    Does not sound like something that should even be considered especially given all of the additional meaning that's being heaped onto it.
    at this moment its factually not because theres no evidence that shows the "banging" was anything aggressive, theres no signs/evidence of forced entry or attempted forced entry. At this point its a meaningless acronym.

    COuld that change? yes if theres MORE evidence and facts we dont know about but unless that happens it holds zero weight.
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