View Poll Results: Should Social Security Retirement be increased?

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    17 48.57%
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    7 20.00%
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    7 20.00%
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Thread: Social Security Should Be Enhanced, Not Cut, Elizabeth Warren Tells Senate

  1. #51
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    Re: Social Security Should Be Enhanced, Not Cut, Elizabeth Warren Tells Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    really? people are convicted on informations all the time through a plea. Misdemeanor convictions are not pursuant to an indictment either

    I know who is really the lawyer and who is not.
    Nope, I am not a lawyer....got some self respect.
    we ain't talking petty crime here....now tell me how a person gets to the point of the plea bargain without an indictment? they just walk in and plead guilty? ask to be put in the slammer for felony crimes without an indictment? all the time?
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  2. #52
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    Re: Social Security Should Be Enhanced, Not Cut, Elizabeth Warren Tells Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Nope, I am not a lawyer....got some self respect.
    we ain't talking petty crime here....now tell me how a person gets to the point of the plea bargain without an indictment? they just walk in and plead guilty? ask to be put in the slammer for felony crimes without an indictment? all the time?
    If you have to ask you will never understand. you are trying to derail a discussion that had you making an idiotic claim about wanting to kill people

    people plead to INFORMATIONS all the time. call up any federal prosecutor or defense attorney who understands the issue as I do

    Chapter Nine : Grand Jury Manual


    An information is of benefit to the Government because its use obviates the resource commitment in time, expense and effort necessary to present an indictment to the grand jury. Depending upon the totality of circumstances, the presentation of an indictment to a grand jury can be an expensive and time-consuming task, particularly when the grand jury must be called to sit merely to consider the indictment. Also, the staff must spend time and effort preparing its presentation, including a summing-up of the relevant evidence and the presentation of relevant documents, as well as arranging to have all the documents and transcripts available for the grand jurors' consideration. Although such work is not particularly onerous, it is time-consuming, and the ability to avoid it is usually a benefit.(17) However, there may be other strategic considerations in specific factual settings that would lead a prosecutor to prefer an indictment over an information.

    If pre-indictment plea discussions do not appear to be making progress, particularly if the defendant or his counsel is apparently dragging his feet or otherwise not negotiating in good faith, the staff should proceed with an indictment. On occasion, this will force the issue and put an end to delaying tactics and result in a post-indictment plea agreement.



  3. #53
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    Re: Social Security Should Be Enhanced, Not Cut, Elizabeth Warren Tells Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    My plan reduces no such thing.

    I have no idea what your question about attacking upper income people means.
    They get to lord it over the peasants in the safety of their McMansions and country clubs and Daddykins can sleep with the upstairs maid without the fear that America will go the way of other societies in history where the masses felt they were not being treated properly and insurrection and violence and even revolution resulted.



    That you do not see that you are almost occasionally rabid and soaked in blood deleuged fantasy when you consider people who have earned more than you have is almost comical.

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    Re: Social Security Should Be Enhanced, Not Cut, Elizabeth Warren Tells Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    They get to lord it over the peasants in the safety of their McMansions and country clubs and Daddykins can sleep with the upstairs maid without the fear that America will go the way of other societies in history where the masses felt they were not being treated properly and insurrection and violence and even revolution resulted.



    That you do not see that you are almost occasionally rabid and soaked in blood deleuged fantasy when you consider people who have earned more than you have is almost comical.
    What is even worse is that you intentionally have decided to be blind to me actually trying to make sure we have a society that never ever has that sort of violence.

    And I do fairly well in the blessings of wealth department.
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    Re: Social Security Should Be Enhanced, Not Cut, Elizabeth Warren Tells Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What is even worse is that you intentionally have decided to be blind to me actually trying to make sure we have a society that never ever has that sort of violence.
    Nah - you are quite quick to take from others and cover with not-so-veiled threats. "Nice family you have, there. Be a shame if anyone were to guillotine them because you didn't support increasing the top marginal tax rates......." your hyperbole makes you look equal parts ridiculous, radical, and rapacious.

    And I do fairly well in the blessings of wealth department.
    Yeah. We know. After all, two full public employee rides with double social security and an extra paycheck from a job hanging around the capital?

    Mind you, despite your doing fairly well in the blessings of wealth, you have no intention whatsoever of giving up a single dime to help lower income seniors - no, that you reserve for others.

  6. #56
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    Re: Social Security Should Be Enhanced, Not Cut, Elizabeth Warren Tells Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    If you have to ask you will never understand. you are trying to derail a discussion that had you making an idiotic claim about wanting to kill people

    people plead to INFORMATIONS all the time. call up any federal prosecutor or defense attorney who understands the issue as I do

    Chapter Nine : Grand Jury Manual


    An information is of benefit to the Government because its use obviates the resource commitment in time, expense and effort necessary to present an indictment to the grand jury. Depending upon the totality of circumstances, the presentation of an indictment to a grand jury can be an expensive and time-consuming task, particularly when the grand jury must be called to sit merely to consider the indictment. Also, the staff must spend time and effort preparing its presentation, including a summing-up of the relevant evidence and the presentation of relevant documents, as well as arranging to have all the documents and transcripts available for the grand jurors' consideration. Although such work is not particularly onerous, it is time-consuming, and the ability to avoid it is usually a benefit.(17) However, there may be other strategic considerations in specific factual settings that would lead a prosecutor to prefer an indictment over an information.

    If pre-indictment plea discussions do not appear to be making progress, particularly if the defendant or his counsel is apparently dragging his feet or otherwise not negotiating in good faith, the staff should proceed with an indictment. On occasion, this will force the issue and put an end to delaying tactics and result in a post-indictment plea agreement.
    Some people deserve shooting.....Bernie Madoff and those like him. Just my opinion. If we had punishment that matched the level of damage done to old people's retirement funds, maybe we would have fewer old people working to get a little extra to go with their social security.
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  7. #57
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    Re: Social Security Should Be Enhanced, Not Cut, Elizabeth Warren Tells Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Thanks. I've long thought that there were plenty of ways to achieve both Liberal and Conservative goals within policy.


    I agree. Unfortunately, not with the current conservatives in Congress as it would call for compromise...But actually I think it would be wonderful for a person who receives only $1,000 in SS benefits to be getting $2,000-$3,000 instead..

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    Re: Social Security Should Be Enhanced, Not Cut, Elizabeth Warren Tells Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Juanita View Post
    I agree. Unfortunately, not with the current conservatives in Congress as it would call for compromise...But actually I think it would be wonderful for a person who receives only $1,000 in SS benefits to be getting $2,000-$3,000 instead..
    ...I would be willing to bet if you put that plan in front of the GOP in Congress today you would get a large majority of support - and that your main problem would be convincing people who were afraid it was "too radical" and conservative to sell well to the public. That was why they abandoned Bush in 2005 (to their everlasting shame) on this issue. You might get a couple who stick on the sole issue of popping the cap, but I think compared to the overwhelming advantage of creating an ownership society of people who can reasonably expect to be able to take care of themselves... I just don't see that stick having all that power.

    I think your bigger problem is going to be Democrats, who seem to have an antipathy to letting people take advantage of the markets' growth in their SS accounts almost imprinted in their DNA (and who will see an excellent political opportunity to castigate Republicans - accurately or not - as placing people's retirements in the hands of evil corporations and bankers).

    But if you want people to have more secure retirements, and actually be able to provide some measure of fiscal independence to our low-income-elderly, you have to be able to take advantage of that higher growth.
    Last edited by cpwill; 11-23-13 at 12:31 AM.

  9. #59
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    Re: Social Security Should Be Enhanced, Not Cut, Elizabeth Warren Tells Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ...I would be willing to bet if you put that plan in front of the GOP in Congress today you would get a large majority of support - and that your main problem would be convincing people who were afraid it was "too radical" and conservative to sell well to the public. That was why they abandoned Bush in 2005 (to their everlasting shame) on this issue. You might get a couple who stick on the sole issue of popping the cap, but I think compared to the overwhelming advantage of creating an ownership society of people who can reasonably expect to be able to take care of themselves... I just don't see that stick having all that power.

    I think your bigger problem is going to be Democrats, who seem to have an antipathy to letting people take advantage of the markets' growth in their SS accounts almost imprinted in their DNA (and who will see an excellent political opportunity to castigate Republicans - accurately or not - as placing people's retirements in the hands of evil corporations and bankers).

    But if you want people to have more secure retirements, and actually be able to provide some measure of fiscal independence to our low-income-elderly, you have to be able to take advantage of that higher growth.


    That's the way I felt and thought about it too..I was totally against the idea, but I have seen the stock Market dive like Esther Williams only to come back higher than ever--whatever was lost was regained...so that fear is gone...and perhaps it hasn't been explained as well as you explained it

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    Re: Social Security Should Be Enhanced, Not Cut, Elizabeth Warren Tells Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Nah - you are quite quick to take from others and cover with not-so-veiled threats. "Nice family you have, there. Be a shame if anyone were to guillotine them because you didn't support increasing the top marginal tax rates......." your hyperbole makes you look equal parts ridiculous, radical, and rapacious.



    Yeah. We know. After all, two full public employee rides with double social security and an extra paycheck from a job hanging around the capital?

    Mind you, despite your doing fairly well in the blessings of wealth, you have no intention whatsoever of giving up a single dime to help lower income seniors - no, that you reserve for others.
    I am trying to make sure we honor our commitments to ALL AMERICAN WORKERS and that includes seniors of low incomes. Attacking me for not doing so is a lie and is utter nonsense.

    And talk about looking ridiculous - George Santayana warned us about people like you who prefer to play ostrich and hide their head in the sand rather than study the past and confront the errors we committed so it is not our future

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

    Apparently you have learned nothing from it and would have us rush headlong down the same paths which only lead to disaster for our society.
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-23-13 at 07:14 AM.
    __________________________________________________ _
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