View Poll Results: Is Obama still a "socialist"?

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  • YES!

    41 50.00%
  • No!

    2 2.44%
  • Whats socialism again? Isnt that whatever the Tea Party says it is?

    5 6.10%
  • No. He also never was a socialist.

    34 41.46%
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Thread: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

  1. #61
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Since the Left bitches about the way the Right uses socialism, I'll put it another way. He is absolutely a collectivist, and hates the way this country achieved its status through rugged individualism; so he aims to change that through a social justice agenda, to correct all his perceived unfairnesses. Those unfairnesses were primarily imposed on minorities by whites, which is why I consider him a political racist. He perceives all things poltical in terms of race.
    :0) WOW

    Obama "perceives all things poltical in terms of race."

    The surely you can easily point out all his policies that are directed towards black people .. :0)

    Surely if ALL of his perceptions are race-based, you must have pages and pages of his policies that you can point to.

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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Just because he calls himself by the name? How his ideology or his voting record any different from any randomly chosen guy or gal in the left wing of Democratic Party?
    Bernie Sanders' Voting Records - Project Vote Smart

    he's about as far left as it gets in congress. whether he advocates giving all of the means of production to the workers, i'm not sure.

  3. #63
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post
    'CLOSEST' is the optimum word here.

    No real socialist would have voted for the ACA.
    i agree there.

  4. #64
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Burlington, VT might disagree with the idea that Sanders is a socialist, where he was mayor..


    As for today, Sanders is in the hip pocket of French-Canadian wind-energy corporatists, who have put wind farms on the northern VT Green Mountain ridges .
    they put one right outside my town. it has been pretty good for us.

  5. #65
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post
    :0) WOW

    Obama "perceives all things poltical in terms of race."

    The surely you can easily point out all his policies that are directed towards black people .. :0)

    Surely if ALL of his perceptions are race-based, you must have pages and pages of his policies that you can point to.
    You think he has pages of policies, as though he's accomplished much?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/us...anted=all&_r=0

    But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now.
    This guy spent 20 years listening to a race baiter name Rev Wright (distancing himself only after a beating by the media. He supports amnesty for illegal aliens, and why do you think that is? Probably two reasons, 1) votes, and 2) injustice by the US taking land away from hispanics during the 19th century. Obamacare was designed to force those with (rich whites) to support those without (poor blacks), to put it simply. It never was about reducing healthcare costs, as every analysis has shown. Sure he's very race oriented, in those areas where race can be applied, but he's still a collectivist in all areas whether races related or not. There doesn't seem to be any issue where those who disagree with him aren't in some way labeled racists. I've never seen him speak out against those that use racism as a political tool.

    Frankly I'm sick of him, and think he's been a lousy example of the first black President, because of the way he's conducted himself politically. His whole presidency has held an aura of "finally getting his people what they're owed". We are as a nation trying to get over the racial issues of the past, yet he plays it like a piano for political gain. I have no use for him.



    I await his speech to speak out against this.
    Last edited by American; 11-19-13 at 12:20 PM. Reason: added content.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  6. #66
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post

    .. and if the major beneficiary of the policies of that 'socialist' benefited Wall Street more than actual people .. how was that person ever considered to be a socialist in the first place? .
    Policies have results, intended and unintended. I am not a socialist for a number of reasons, and one of them is that I do not believe most socialist policies actually benefit "actual people". Wall Street has benefited, disproportionally, from bailouts, "stimulation", quantitative easing, etc - all socialist policies, by definition: government interfering with the markets.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post
    Socialists aren't warmongers for the MIC.
    Why not? Look at the "muscular foreign policy" of the current Socialist French government.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post
    If Obama was a socialist, Medicare for All would be the law of the land, nor Romneycare.
    I agree that would be both a socialist and much better (if done right) solution. But is what he has done - or the status quo - any less socialist? Arguably, more: a (reformed, streamlined and rationalized) "Medicare for all" would mean eliminating whole layers of government bureaucracy, unburdening businesses, and boosting the health care markets by putting money into actual consumers' pockets.

  7. #67
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    whether he advocates giving all of the means of production to the workers, i'm not sure.
    Of course not. That's Marxist gibberish. He is a socialist, not a communist.

  8. #68
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post

    The source of disagreement is that partisans stretch words to mean whatever they want it to mean.
    I am not especially partisan. I agree, as I said, that a certain kind of "single payer" would be superior to the status quo, to say nothing about Obamacare, for example.

    But you keep avoiding answering my actual questions. Let's try again:

    Allowing for semantic fog effects, and all that: Are the militaristic, corporatist etc French Socialists, for example, still "real socialists" or impostors?

    Or, when Jon Corzine (D-Wall Street) was pushing for universal health care, universal gun registration and state-funded college education - these policies were somehow not socialist, just because the politician was a member of the country's "financial elite"?

  9. #69
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Of course not. That's Marxist gibberish. He is a socialist, not a communist.
    this is the definition i was going by :

    Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy.

    Socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  10. #70
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    this is the definition i was going by :
    That's a Marxist definition that makes no practical sense. "Co-operative management" suggests voluntary, free-market relationships, while "social ownership" is meaningless unless it is a mask for the coercive State owning everything and everyone.

    Actual Socialists - be it in Spain or in France, or in Chile, or elsewhere - aim at increased government control over the economy and extension of what they perceive as "safety nets". Sometimes these plans include limited nationalization (in France in the early 1980s last time), sometimes the opposite: the Spanish Socialists under Gonzalez started to privatize small and medium-size businesses that were run by government under Franco, and went as far as privatizing the giant Empresa Nacional de Electricitad SA. As recently as in 2005 Zapatero's Socialists privatized the big tobacco company Altadis.

    The modern-day Socialists want to milk the cow, not ride it to death.

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