View Poll Results: Is Obama still a "socialist"?

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  • YES!

    41 50.00%
  • No!

    2 2.44%
  • Whats socialism again? Isnt that whatever the Tea Party says it is?

    5 6.10%
  • No. He also never was a socialist.

    34 41.46%
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Thread: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

  1. #111
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    He had to play ball with private companies to get Communist agenda embedded. Look how he put the screws to the insurance compaies.
    lol @ the ACA being "communist"

  2. #112
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    Seriously? so car insurance is socialist too? requiring kids to go to school is socialist? Making everyone obey the speed limit is socialist?

    As some earlier posters pointed out, his opponents are twisting the definition of socialism till its own mother wouldn't recognize it.

    And the thing is - who cares what label you throw on it? I could call subsidies of oil companies socialism. Label only matters if you have a knee-jerk reaction to a label and never look at anything else. Do you like the policy or not? That's what is important, not whatever label you put on it. Which in this case I believe you are doing inaccurately; you disagree; but again - call it a "firestormism" ... call it whatever you like. It's what's in it that is important.

    Personally, given how screwed up our health insurance system was, I feel the ACA is a step in the right direction, even though I would have preferred single payer. (But that could have led to huge economic disruptions as health insurance companies closed down, so maybe not the best to do right away).

    We have higher health costs and worst outcomes - ie lower life expectancy - than other western countries like France and England (Yeah, google it, I'm not bothering posting a link; by now everyone on this site should be well aware of this) (and yes, there are some medical procedures that we do better than them, but overall - more $$$, shorter lives) I personally think highly enough of our country to think we can do better than this - and that we WANT to do better than this. That we don't want people dying because they couldn't afford basic care.

    You may disagree with that, of course.
    You may be right that it really doesn't matter what label you put on it... unfortunatly that is what the thread was asking. I posted a definition of socialism earlier, I didn't indicate whether it was a good or a bad thing. under the definition, certain segments of our economic system have become socialist. President Obama supports those changes that create that economic enviroment. so what? just admit it.

    To your other points: government intervention in markets always has unintended and usually very expensive consequences. Health care insurance reform is a trojan horse for capturing governmental control over a larger share of the economy, here's why:

    No one chooses to get sick. The services required to render care are what they are, no matter the method used to pay for those services. In the old system, people went to get care, didn't pay the bill, the Dr's and hospitals wrote off the loss and the taxpayer shared the expense of the write off. Now the same thing eventually happens, except there are more hands in the pot of taxpayer money. Now instead of Dr. and indigent patient taking from the taxpayer, it is the Dr, the insurer, the government bureaucrat, and the patient dipping into tax payer pockets. You see simple systems are always more efficient. I would solve the health care problem with HSA's for all, subsidizing low income accounts. offering higher deductable plans with lower premiums for those who roll their hsa funds over in healthy years. This incentivises competition and responsible use of health care dollars.
    "It is only when men contemplate the greatness of God that they can come to realize their own inadequacy." Jean Calvin

  3. #113
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    you want to call something socialist, call Southwest Airlines socialist. They are employee-owned; that's what socialism is.

    ACA isn't socialist.

    Pres Obama isn't socialist.

    Southwest Airlines is.

  4. #114
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    you want to call something socialist, call Southwest Airlines socialist. They are employee-owned; that's what socialism is.

    ACA isn't socialist.

    Pres Obama isn't socialist.

    Southwest Airlines is.
    Please. go read a dictionary.
    "It is only when men contemplate the greatness of God that they can come to realize their own inadequacy." Jean Calvin

  5. #115
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by paddymcdougall View Post
    you want to call something socialist, call Southwest Airlines socialist.
    OK, I'll do that from now on. In my private vocabulary, "socialist" will mean "Southwest Airlines". And if 99% of the world's socialists have any issue with that, I will tell them to go pound the sand.

    Quote: When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less

  6. #116
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    He had to play ball with private companies to get Communist agenda embedded. Look how he put the screws to the insurance compaies.
    The health insurance industry WROTE IT.

    Try again.

  7. #117
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    Being a corporatist does not exclude him from being a socialist. Socialists rewards their friends just like every other statist.
    Words don't mean whatever you want them to.

    A corporatist socialist???

  8. #118
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    He was always known as a triangulating centrist and establishment type since his days in chicago. Not sure why everyone got sold on this idea he was some political outsider. Well, besides the fact that he was a black man and assumed that amounted to some inherent political position. But whatever
    I don't disagree with that.

  9. #119
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    When corporations become largely dependent on federal money and or credits to survive, and at the same time are heavily regulated; this meets the definition of socialism. Think about what it means for banks to be too big to fail, coupled with heavy regulations, and further their profits being supported by the fed. This is a symbiotic and controlled relationship between Government and providers of capital. Straight up socialism.
    Yeah but the point was, even if Obama has socialist plans, once he got elected he found out he couldnt just talk his way into it. The lack of success is not evidence of lack of intent.

  10. #120
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post
    BS to get elected is not really hard to discern. All it takes is to pay attention.

    This was just one among Obama's mountain of BS to get elected.
    And then he set off to make it happen, by raising taxes on the rich, increasing social spending on everyone else, and increasing govt control over 1/5th of the economy. Luckily theres still some people in the country who oppose it at every turn and kicked the democrats out of the House.

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