View Poll Results: Is Obama still a "socialist"?

Voters
82. You may not vote on this poll
  • YES!

    41 50.00%
  • No!

    2 2.44%
  • Whats socialism again? Isnt that whatever the Tea Party says it is?

    5 6.10%
  • No. He also never was a socialist.

    34 41.46%
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Thread: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

  1. #91
    Educator BlackAsCoal's Avatar
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    OK I see you didn't answer the one question I had. That says it all.
    What economic system would you say underlies that type of activity?

    If this is the question that you're referring to .. it most certainly would NOT be deemed a socialist economy .. and it is only the imagination that would suggest it would be.

    Are you aware that socialist economies make room for cradle-to-grave free healthcare AND education for its citizens?

    I'm sure the stretching of 'socialist' plays well among the lost and confused .. but calling Obama a socialist is absolutely laughable.

    I'll say again .. partisans will stretch the meaning of everything to meet the meme.
    Last edited by BlackAsCoal; 11-19-13 at 03:59 PM.

  2. #92
    Educator BlackAsCoal's Avatar
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    You are still recycling content-free slogans. And not answering any of our questions.

    Just sayin'.
    I've asked several questions that haven't been answered. Is this conversation one way .. or do I get to ignore questions when mine aren't answered? I didn't see that covered in TOU.

    Just sayin'

    Please, ask your question again and I'll be happy to answer it.

    I'll ask another one .. Obama walked into the White House door with Larry Summers and Tim Geithner. What kind of socialist does something that dumb and blatantly corporatist?
    Last edited by BlackAsCoal; 11-19-13 at 04:01 PM.

  3. #93
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post
    'CLOSEST' is the optimum word here.

    No real socialist would have voted for the ACA.
    Sure they would. The US would never vote for a single-payer health care system unless the old system was destroyed. It was functioning too well to have a mass call for radical change. Bring on the ACA, destroy the US health care system and voila...

  4. #94
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post

    Please, ask your question again and I'll be happy to answer it.
    I did. Repeatedly. Last time: Post #68. Your happy answer?

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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    When corporations become largely dependent on federal money and or credits to survive, and at the same time are heavily regulated; this meets the definition of socialism. Think about what it means for banks to be too big to fail, coupled with heavy regulations, and further their profits being supported by the fed. This is a symbiotic and controlled relationship between Government and providers of capital. Straight up socialism.
    Or "making health care more affordable" by providing a subsidy.

  6. #96
    Educator BlackAsCoal's Avatar
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    Sure they would. The US would never vote for a single-payer health care system unless the old system was destroyed. It was functioning too well to have a mass call for radical change. Bring on the ACA, destroy the US health care system and voila...
    Respectfully, that's ridiculous.

    What the right conveniently omits from the meme is that healthcare reform was mandated by the American people in 2008. It was so demanded by Americans that even republicans were forced to come up with their own plans.

    What a socialist would have done is used that demand by Americans to implement the only real solution, a single payer system .. and if republicans resisted, that socialist would have taken that plan to the American people in the 2010 midterms .. and forced republicans to stand against Medicare for All Americans.

    Guaranteed the 2010 midterms would not have turned out as they did.

    HR 676 and S 703 were on the table when corporatist Obama opted for the Heritage Foundation plan .. written by the health insurance lobby.

    The notion that Obama is somehow a socialist is just silly.

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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post
    Respectfully, that's ridiculous.

    What the right conveniently omits from the meme is that healthcare reform was mandated by the American people in 2008. It was so demanded by Americans that even republicans were forced to come up with their own plans.

    What a socialist would have done is used that demand by Americans to implement the only real solution, a single payer system .. and if republicans resisted, that socialist would have taken that plan to the American people in the 2010 midterms .. and forced republicans to stand against Medicare for All Americans.

    Guaranteed the 2010 midterms would not have turned out as they did.

    HR 676 and S 703 were on the table when corporatist Obama opted for the Heritage Foundation plan .. written by the health insurance lobby.

    The notion that Obama is somehow a socialist is just silly.
    No. Healthcare reform was demanded by democrats. It was so demanded by democrats and so not demanded by Americans that the democrats had their asses handed to them in 2010.

    Edit: Your dream that Americans are clamoring for Medicare for all is just that. Don't worry though. Obama is working to make that happen for you.
    Last edited by FederalRepublic; 11-19-13 at 04:40 PM.

  8. #98
    Educator BlackAsCoal's Avatar
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    I am not especially partisan. I agree, as I said, that a certain kind of "single payer" would be superior to the status quo, to say nothing about Obamacare, for example.

    But you keep avoiding answering my actual questions. Let's try again:

    Allowing for semantic fog effects, and all that: Are the militaristic, corporatist etc French Socialists, for example, still "real socialists" or impostors?

    Or, when Jon Corzine (D-Wall Street) was pushing for universal health care, universal gun registration and state-funded college education - these policies were somehow not socialist, just because the politician was a member of the country's "financial elite"?
    From my perspective, socialism is not militaristic by its very nature. However, capitalism is .. and what we see in France is the mix of the two when it comes to foreign policy. The French will declare its the result of Nazi occupation, but whatever its origin, as a socialist, I'm not comfortable with it.

    That being said, I agree with your point .. while cringing.

    I would indeed call Corzine a socialist and a crony capitalist .. which is the very reason that he was never going to get the financial backing from Wall Street that Obama did .. which is my point. If you're suggesting that Wall Street would have bathed Corzine in the same money they gave Obama, I suggest that isn't true.

    Calling everything on the other side of the fence 'socialist' is nothing new for the right. It's the same worn out story ..

    Wall Street soars under Obama’s socialism
    excerpt

    As we talked about earlier in the year, if President Obama is trying to impose socialism on the U.S. economy, he really isn’t trying very hard.

    The real fun begins when we reminisce about what Obama’s Republican critics were saying in early 2009. Indeed, the Wall Street Journal ran an entire editorial in early March 2009 arguing that the weak stock market was a direct result of investors evaluating “Mr. Obama’s agenda and his approach to governance.”

    Karl Rove and Lou Dobbs made the same case. So did Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Fred Barnes. For a short while, it was one of Mitt Romney’s favorite talking points, too. Even John Boehner got in on the larger attack.

    Just so we’re clear, I still don’t think a strong stock market is necessarily proof of a robust economy. There are far more reliable indicators – job growth and median wages, for example – that tell us far more about the relative strengh of the economy than where major Wall Street indexes close on a given day.

    But when it comes to the politics, consistency matters. Conservatives can’t say a falling stock market in early 2009 is proof that Obama’s agenda is a dangerous failure, and then ignore a rising stock market as irrelevant.
    Wall Street soars under Obama's socialism | MSNBC

    It's soaring because it isn't socialist.

  9. #99
    Educator BlackAsCoal's Avatar
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    No. Healthcare reform was demanded by democrats. It was so demanded by democrats and so not demanded by Americans that the democrats had their asses handed to them in 2010.

    Edit: Your dream that Americans are clamoring for Medicare for all is just that. Don't worry though. Obama is working to make that happen for you.
    2008 Election Issues: Candidate Positions

    Health Care

    Health care is once again near the top of voters' concerns — a position it has not held since the 1992 presidential race. A December 2007 poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation found that health ranked second among issues voters want policymakers to address — following only the war in Iraq — among Democrats, Republicans and independents.

    That may help explain why Democrats and Republicans running for president have offered up comprehensive health care policy proposals during the primary phase of their campaigns. Read a sampling of each candidate's health care proposals.
    2008 Election Issues: Candidate Positions : NPR

    See how easy that was?

  10. #100
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    Re: Is Obama Still a "Socialist"?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAsCoal View Post
    2008 Election Issues: Candidate Positions

    Health Care

    Health care is once again near the top of voters' concerns — a position it has not held since the 1992 presidential race. A December 2007 poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation found that health ranked second among issues voters want policymakers to address — following only the war in Iraq — among Democrats, Republicans and independents.

    That may help explain why Democrats and Republicans running for president have offered up comprehensive health care policy proposals during the primary phase of their campaigns. Read a sampling of each candidate's health care proposals.
    2008 Election Issues: Candidate Positions : NPR

    See how easy that was?
    Well, that certainly proves that Americans wanted medicare for all. If only the democrats had listened.

    I suppose I should have put "healthcare reform" in quotes. Yeah. Lots of people want to do something about the rising costs of health care. Making it more expensive on purpose would rank pretty low on most people's list though, unless you're a socialist. You can't have people choosing market solutions when you have something so awesome that you want to give them, so you have to destroy the market first.

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