Send help to the Philippines ?

READ BEFORE VOTING!!!!!


Ok so i'm all for helping people out, but the fact that we are sending 20 million dollars to help them got me thinking. Where was the money coming from? Now I could only think of two places. One, taxes. 2. We're borrowing it. Now if everything was OK in America I would say go for it, they need it. BUT EVERYTHING IS NOT ALRIGHT PEOPLE! We are 17 billion dollars in dept. Every tax payer in America currently would have to pay 149 thousand dollars to take us out of dept nationally on top of what individual owe, and the government keeps spending! We shouldn't be trying to stabilize other economy's, we should be trying to stabilize our own, scrapping together every penny we can get to start shoving that number back! And when we think "Oh penny's don't matter the dept increase by hundreds of dollars a second," well consider that every penny we shove that dept back, that's another penny our kids and grand kids and great grand kids wont have to pay. And people, 20 million dollars is not a couple of penny's. When you realize that about 48 cents out of the dollar is borrowed, we just shoved our dept up about 9.6 million dollars. Is a recovering country going to help us pay that back? I don't think so. I highly doubt it in any case. In case your wondering if any of these numbers are crap, here's a real time dept clock to back me up. So should we send it? Sorry but i say no

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

I tend to agree. In case nobody has noticed we are broke, beyond broke, we are so far in debt out great great grand kids will be paying on it.

Huh, I disagree. I say yes. And if you have to ask why, you are beyond me.

It is the humane thing to do besides Obama spends that much every hour of the day.

I oppose about 95% of foreign aid.

This is part of the 5%.

20m can be cut elsewhere.

The amount spent on humanitarian operations like this are negligible compared to annual spending let alone our deficit and debt. It is in the interests of the United States to maintain a positive influence in the world, as well as being a frank part of our common humanity. Provincialism is the road to turmoil.

JJB3333 said:

READ BEFORE VOTING!!!!!


Ok so i'm all for helping people out, but the fact that we are sending 20 million dollars to help them got me thinking. Where was the money coming from? Now I could only think of two places. One, taxes. 2. We're borrowing it. Now if everything was OK in America I would say go for it, they need it. BUT EVERYTHING IS NOT ALRIGHT PEOPLE! We are 17 billion dollars in dept. Every tax payer in America currently would have to pay 149 thousand dollars to take us out of dept nationally on top of what individual owe, and the government keeps spending! We shouldn't be trying to stabilize other economy's, we should be trying to stabilize our own, scrapping together every penny we can get to start shoving that number back! And when we think "Oh penny's don't matter the dept increase by hundreds of dollars a second," well consider that every penny we shove that dept back, that's another penny our kids and grand kids and great grand kids wont have to pay. And people, 20 million dollars is not a couple of penny's. When you realize that about 48 cents out of the dollar is borrowed, we just shoved our dept up about 9.6 million dollars. Is a recovering country going to help us pay that back? I don't think so. I highly doubt it in any case. In case your wondering if any of these numbers are crap, here's a real time dept clock to back me up. So should we send it? Sorry but i say no

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Click to expand...

The better question is where did it not go instead. Every dime (Obama loves to talk about spending dimes) wether taxed or borrowed that is spent must be appropriated by congress for a stated purpose. That $20 million had to be taken from somewhere else to be spent - since I do not recall a bill becoming law to aid the Philippines.

ttwtt78640 said:

The better question is where did it not go instead. Every dime (Obama loves to talk about spending dimes) wether taxed or borrowed that is spent must be appropriated by congress for a stated purpose. That $20 million had to be taken from somewhere else to be spent - since I do not recall a bill becoming law to aid the Philippines.

Click to expand...

Give me a break. This is humanitarian aid. Out of all of our irresponsible spending, you choose to scrutinize this?

Zariak said:

Give me a break. This is humanitarian aid. Out of all of our irresponsible spending, you choose to scrutinize this?

Click to expand...

No, I choose to question why this is possible without any change in the law. How much is allocated (if any) for giving away to foreign nations "just in case" things happen and what happens if no such case comes up? All I ask is under what legal budget authority can the federal gov't spend money? I am sure that "every dime" is carefully allocated on paper, so to pay X you must not pay Y.

We will and we should. We give hundreds of millions to Pakistan. Look what they do with it.

ttwtt78640 said:

No, I choose to question why this is possible without any change in the law. How much is allocated (if any) for giving away to foreign nations "just in case" things happen and what happens if no such case comes up? All I ask is under what legal budget authority can the federal gov't spend money? I am sure that "every dime" is carefully allocated on paper, so to pay X you must not pay Y.

Click to expand...

It falls under several intersecting categories.

1. The first is the authorization for military expenditure. We have already paid the cost of maintaining our fleets, armies, and associated formations. How they are dispatched, maneuvered, and used in a non-military fashion has always been the discretion of the President since the earliest days of the Republic. Barring exceptional circumstances that would necessitate asking for more funds for military operations (as some speculated might be needed for Syria) this is a decision that can be made unilaterally by the President without needed further funds.

2. The Office of Foreign Disaster Assistance (OFDA) is a sub-unit within USAID and has an annual budget of $1.0-$1.2 billion this is the most commonly used vehicle for delivering emergency funds or purchasing humanitarian supplies.

3. A host of other funds, budgets, and the like from similar programs that have flexible spending mandates. For example the DoD Security Assistance Fund has shifted money from security programs to emergency relief in the past (a la Pakistan), the USDA food assistance program has re-apportioned money for emergency needs (a la the recent Somali famine fears), Migration and Refugee Assistance will divert funds to cover contingencies like the Indian Tsunami, etc.

4. Finally the President may sometimes (though its rare its necessary) seek additional funds from Congress. He also has the power through the Treasury to guarantee loans (I think) without Congressional permission.

I don't see why the US gov ( taxpayers) should ever send money in events like this. As we speak Filipino immigrants are mounting drives to send money home and any US citizen is free to donate all they want. I don't like the government putting the nation further in debt for this and if I want to donate I will. I resent mandatory donations.

CRUE CAB said:

We will and we should. We give hundreds of millions to Pakistan. Look what they do with it.

Click to expand...

I disagree.

We shouldn't be sending money to the Philippines, we shouldn't be sending money to Pakistan, we shouldn't be sending money to Egypt, we shouldn't be sending ,money to Israel, we shouldn't be sending money anywhere.

If individual Americans want to send their money to any of those places the Jebsus bless their hearts and they're free to do what they want with their money.

I take only a slightly less strict view of spending tax money to feed the hungry, and clothe the naked, and care for the sick here in America - and then only because I personally would have to deal with the consequences of poor, sick, hungry people lining the streets of my hometown spreading communicable disease and trying to steal the wheels off my car.

soot said:

I disagree.

We shouldn't be sending money to the Philippines, we shouldn't be sending money to Pakistan, we shouldn't be sending money to Egypt, we shouldn't be sending ,money to Israel, we shouldn't be sending money anywhere.

If individual Americans want to send their money to any of those places the Jebsus bless their hearts and they're free to do what they want with their money.

I take only a slightly less strict view of spending tax money to feed the hungry, and clothe the naked, and care for the sick here in America - and then only because I personally would have to deal with the consequences of poor, sick, hungry people lining the streets of my hometown spreading communicable disease and trying to steal the wheels off my car.

Click to expand...

Bitter much. These people have ended up with absolutely nothing. Zero. We will always have money for humanitarian needs of a people that have done nothing to us.

When your neighbours house is on fire you don't haggle over the cost of your garden hose.

$20 million and any aid to follow is a drop in the bucket.

Dear OP: This is not a black-or-white issue. The choice is not, I repeat, not a binary decision between zero dollars and $50 trillion dollars. There are a lot of numbers in between!

Yes...and anyway, we already are.

The amount of money aid will cost is a tiny flyspeck on the side of the giant money sink we are running.



Edit: Also, why in all the flaming hells do you keep using the word "dept" as if it means "debt". It's driving me nuts.

CRUE CAB said:

Bitter much. These people have ended up with absolutely nothing. Zero. We will always have money for humanitarian needs of a people that have done nothing to us.

Click to expand...

I'm not bitter, I don't really feel anything.

I just don't give a **** about the Philippines.

Nothing against them as I'm sure they're all awesome people.

But I feel no obligation to assist them.

YOU may always have money for humanitarian assistance.

You do not speak for me so there is no WE to this calculation.

JJB3333 said:

READ BEFORE VOTING!!!!!


Ok so i'm all for helping people out, but the fact that we are sending 20 million dollars to help them got me thinking. Where was the money coming from? Now I could only think of two places. One, taxes. 2. We're borrowing it. Now if everything was OK in America I would say go for it, they need it. BUT EVERYTHING IS NOT ALRIGHT PEOPLE! We are 17 billion dollars in dept. Every tax payer in America currently would have to pay 149 thousand dollars to take us out of dept nationally on top of what individual owe, and the government keeps spending! We shouldn't be trying to stabilize other economy's, we should be trying to stabilize our own, scrapping together every penny we can get to start shoving that number back! And when we think "Oh penny's don't matter the dept increase by hundreds of dollars a second," well consider that every penny we shove that dept back, that's another penny our kids and grand kids and great grand kids wont have to pay. And people, 20 million dollars is not a couple of penny's. When you realize that about 48 cents out of the dollar is borrowed, we just shoved our dept up about 9.6 million dollars. Is a recovering country going to help us pay that back? I don't think so. I highly doubt it in any case. In case your wondering if any of these numbers are crap, here's a real time dept clock to back me up. So should we send it?

Sorry but i say no

Click to expand...

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Click to expand...

You're too late-the money and the help is already there or it's on the way.

ttwtt78640 said:

No, I choose to question why this is possible without any change in the law.

Click to expand...

How much is allocated (if any) for giving away to foreign nations "just in case" things happen and what happens if no such case comes up? All I ask is under what legal budget authority can the federal gov't spend money? I am sure that "every dime" is carefully allocated on paper, so to pay X you must not pay Y.

Click to expand...

If you 'think' that it's illegal lets see you stop it.

soot said:

I'm not bitter, I don't really feel anything.

I just don't give a **** about the Philippines.

Nothing against them as I'm sure they're all awesome people.

But I feel no obligation to assist them.

YOU may always have money for humanitarian assistance.

You do not speak for me so there is no WE to this calculation.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

If you have ever paid a penny in taxes to the U.S. Government you are helping with this whether you like it or not.

soot said:

I'm not bitter, I don't really feel anything.

I just don't give a **** about the Philippines.

Nothing against them as I'm sure they're all awesome people.

But I feel no obligation to assist them.

YOU may always have money for humanitarian assistance.

You do not speak for me so there is no WE to this calculation.

Click to expand...

We as in the United States.

JJB3333 said:

READ BEFORE VOTING!!!!!


Ok so i'm all for helping people out, but the fact that we are sending 20 million dollars to help them got me thinking. Where was the money coming from? Now I could only think of two places. One, taxes. 2. We're borrowing it. Now if everything was OK in America I would say go for it, they need it. BUT EVERYTHING IS NOT ALRIGHT PEOPLE! We are 17 billion dollars in dept. Every tax payer in America currently would have to pay 149 thousand dollars to take us out of dept nationally on top of what individual owe, and the government keeps spending! We shouldn't be trying to stabilize other economy's, we should be trying to stabilize our own, scrapping together every penny we can get to start shoving that number back! And when we think "Oh penny's don't matter the dept increase by hundreds of dollars a second," well consider that every penny we shove that dept back, that's another penny our kids and grand kids and great grand kids wont have to pay. And people, 20 million dollars is not a couple of penny's. When you realize that about 48 cents out of the dollar is borrowed, we just shoved our dept up about 9.6 million dollars. Is a recovering country going to help us pay that back? I don't think so. I highly doubt it in any case. In case your wondering if any of these numbers are crap, here's a real time dept clock to back me up. So should we send it? Sorry but i say no

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Click to expand...

Didn't bother to read your post. We should send money to the Philippines for several reasons. 1) The people in this country, no matter what your political background, are well intentioned people and like to help others in need. 2) The Philippines is one of the most economically depressed countries in the world, and is simply incapable of responding effectively to this kind of disaster 3) We have a long history with the Philippines, sometimes good sometimes bad, and helping is an extension of that bond (largest American cemetery outside of America is in Manila), 4) The location of the Philippines is strategic and our relations are closer now than in a while due to China's aggression in the South China Sea so anything that enhances that friendship is important.

American Battle Monuments Commission

Territorial disputes in the South China Sea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ttwtt78640 said:

The better question is where did it not go instead. Every dime (Obama loves to talk about spending dimes) wether taxed or borrowed that is spent must be appropriated by congress for a stated purpose. That $20 million had to be taken from somewhere else to be spent - since I do not recall a bill becoming law to aid the Philippines.

Click to expand...

The delivery of food aid, for instance, would look different, channeled more effectively and swiftly into three programs, including a planned $75 million emergency food assistance fund, all managed by the U.S. Agency for International Development. The proposed transition, is being backed by large international humanitarian groups like CARE and Oxfam International.

Funding for USAID would rise slightly next year under the proposal, to $1.57 billion, from $1.52 billion in 2012 and $1.53 billion in the sequestered 2013 budget, while military operations, in form of overseas contingency operations, would be slashed by $184 million, down to $71 million.

Click to expand...

https://www.devex.com/en/news/analysis-obama-s-2014-foreign-aid-budget-request/80681

(I've no idea the source's creds)