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Minimum drop out age

Sould the drop out grade be lowered

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 28.6%

  • Keep it the same

    Votes: 7 20.0%

  • the grade shouldent exist and they should stay in school till 12th grade

    Votes: 18 51.4%
  • Total voters
    35
I don't think anyone should be able to drop out and if they do, they should be ineligible for any form of public assistance or welfare. They have a chance to make something of themselves, if they ignore it, why should we care?
 
Van Basten said:
I thought it was determined by age not grade completion? Could of sworn it was 16, at least in Florida.
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You're correct it varies state to state by age, which many are changing to 18 yrs. The original drop out age was probably a throw back to the Depression Era when young adults could be more useful working in the fields helping support the family.

There are over 1.5 million children home schooled also that have no age determination for dropping out or completion.
 
specklebang said:
Why is it so important to finish HS? I mean, its a good idea and so is College but why do you think we should impose it on the unwilling. What if the youngster wants to open a business or travel the world instead?
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And how are they gonna do that at 14? Even a hostel will ID you. Who's gonna go into a loan with a 14-year-old? How are they going to get the property? They can't even attempt any of those things until they're 18 anyway. So what are they gonna do with those 4 dead years between when they dropped out and when they have all their rights?

And then there's just the fact that an 8th grade education isn't adequate for basic existence. I actually did travel after high school. If I had stopped at the typical 8th grade education level, I wouldn't have been functional enough to even care for myself. Hell, I was advanced, and even with higher than average education at graduation, it's still hard at 18 simply because 18-year-olds don't have any life experience and not a ton of common sense either. I am certain I'd be dead if I had attempted it at 14, with an even more under-baked cerebral cortex. Starting a business at that education level? Are you kidding?

These are young kids who won't and can't do anything but sit at home and twiddle their thumbs when they drop out so young. They aren't going to "speed up" their dreams by dropping out without either the skills or the legal right to do even the basics. Let's be real.

Our education system, sadly, is designed in such a way that most students won't benefit from it very much. But letting them abandon it earlier under the auspice that they'll go after some kind of legally-impossible dream with no more education and an undeveloped brain and no life experience is just silly. Let's fix the system instead, and try to aim the right kind of education at the right students.
 
JJB3333 said:
Ok so i would just like to ask something tha has been bugging me. Sould the drop our grade be lowered.I mean of course i accept that all kids should have an education, but why are we wasting money on so many kids who dont want to be there. We should have it so that say from 9th grade, if the kids want to drop out and riun their lifes, it is their choice. if the parents dont want them to, they can force them to stay in school, but you have all of these kids who are failing classes, ditching, sometimes even going to drugs, and we waste money putting them through year after years of school.

So question: should the drop out grade be lowered from 11th grade
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I find that a very interesting question. Truancy and drop-out are the two main points, where the government actually could do something better than private education can. It is important to make children get schooling and acquire behavioral patterns compatible with work, because without these individuals become costly to everyone else later by becoming criminal or social cases. Allowing this to happen to large numbers of kids has weakened society over the last decades. Government has concentrated on teaching, which it does not do as well as private enterprise and neglected enforcement, which it does better.
 
The Mark said:
this may sound slightly insane, but....

I don't think kids should be allowed to drop out at all - although if a state allows it, they could be homeschooled and the like.
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Homeschooling is a good other option.

However, everyone should be required to get a HS diploma - if they have mental issues they should receive extra help, and if they are prone to not giving a damn they should be required to at least meet minimum standards.
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And the teachers and the schools must have minimum standards too.

If they refuse, they also should recieve extra help, but in a different form, up to and including armed guards locking them in a classroom until they either die or learn.

Ok that last bit might be SLIGHTLY overkill. :mrgreen:
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A court order with a possible transfer to another school may also be in order.

Edit: Further, I would fully support a law that requires parents to attend some meetings between the parents, the teacher, and the kid.
And by requires I mean if you don't show up an arrest warrant is issued and the police can drag your ass there. Pay the parents for their time if necessary, assuming their financial situation is that desperate. And don't allow them to be fired for not being at work during such a meeting.
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Given that one cannot be fired for attending jury duty, a similar measure may be used here.
Man, I'm turning into a totalitarian or something...
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I think we need to think over how the students are educated and change the system or start from scratch if it is not giving the wanted results.
 
My point of view is that those who are a higher ability should be allowed to GED out of the public school system and then can go on to get an associate degree or a bachelor's degree. The schools should have a personalized method geared to each student. If the government schools cannot do this then we need a different system or systems rather. Before deciding what to do about the dropout age, perhaps we should consider what options will be needed for a society and economy that is in the 21st Cenury and not one that existed back in the 1950s or before,
 
The Mark said:
this may sound slightly insane, but....

I don't think kids should be allowed to drop out at all - although if a state allows it, they could be homeschooled and the like.

However, everyone should be required to get a HS diploma - if they have mental issues they should receive extra help, and if they are prone to not giving a damn they should be required to at least meet minimum standards.

If they refuse, they also should recieve extra help, but in a different form, up to and including armed guards locking them in a classroom until they either die or learn.

Ok that last bit might be SLIGHTLY overkill. :mrgreen:


Edit: Further, I would fully support a law that requires parents to attend some meetings between the parents, the teacher, and the kid.
And by requires I mean if you don't show up an arrest warrant is issued and the police can drag your ass there. Pay the parents for their time if necessary, assuming their financial situation is that desperate. And don't allow them to be fired for not being at work during such a meeting.

Man, I'm turning into a totalitarian or something...
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Personally this is why I am against public schools. I fall on the other side, which is let them be. Some people require life to slap them upside the head a few times. Some more than others. The sooner this happens the better off we all are. Let them get the education when they are ready for it.
 
The Mark said:
Perhaps the requirements for a HS diploma or equivalent need modified.

But I do think everyone needs at least some basic knowledge, which a HS diploma or equivalent gives.

It irritates me that our educational system seemingly fails at this task in many cases - perhaps because it attempts to use the same template for everyone, rather than tailoring the learning experience to each student...

Still though, as I see it the answer is NOT to just let kids avoid education.
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A high school diploma as currently conceived is a piss poor benchmark for bare minimum requirements to exist in this society.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
And how are they gonna do that at 14? Even a hostel will ID you. Who's gonna go into a loan with a 14-year-old? How are they going to get the property? They can't even attempt any of those things until they're 18 anyway. So what are they gonna do with those 4 dead years between when they dropped out and when they have all their rights?

And then there's just the fact that an 8th grade education isn't adequate for basic existence. I actually did travel after high school. If I had stopped at the typical 8th grade education level, I wouldn't have been functional enough to even care for myself. Hell, I was advanced, and even with higher than average education at graduation, it's still hard at 18 simply because 18-year-olds don't have any life experience and not a ton of common sense either. I am certain I'd be dead if I had attempted it at 14, with an even more under-baked cerebral cortex. Starting a business at that education level? Are you kidding?

These are young kids who won't and can't do anything but sit at home and twiddle their thumbs when they drop out so young. They aren't going to "speed up" their dreams by dropping out without either the skills or the legal right to do even the basics. Let's be real.

Our education system, sadly, is designed in such a way that most students won't benefit from it very much. But letting them abandon it earlier under the auspice that they'll go after some kind of legally-impossible dream with no more education and an undeveloped brain and no life experience is just silly. Let's fix the system instead, and try to aim the right kind of education at the right students.
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No doubt you're right and no doubt I'm a complete exception to the rules. Remember that in my era, you could cash a check without ID, mail order rifles and use totally fake non-photo ID.

Of course, if it were allowed by law, certainly some would succeed. I frequently read stories of young geniuses who write million dollars apps, establish serious businesses and in some cases damn near have a medical degree by the age of 16.

Those kids, I don't worry about. They learn in other ways (I've been reading since I was 2.5 years old, starting with Babar, in cursive). The losers, even if they were permitted to work, will go nowhere but they seem to go nowhere even with their HS degrees and we sacrifice resources in order to gai their resentful participation while we undercut those who are serious.
 
JJB3333 said:
Ok so i would just like to ask something tha has been bugging me. Sould the drop our grade be lowered.I mean of course i accept that all kids should have an education, but why are we wasting money on so many kids who dont want to be there. We should have it so that say from 9th grade, if the kids want to drop out and riun their lifes, it is their choice. if the parents dont want them to, they can force them to stay in school, but you have all of these kids who are failing classes, ditching, sometimes even going to drugs, and we waste money putting them through year after years of school.

So question: should the drop out grade be lowered from 11th grade
Click to expand...

No one should be allowed to drop out.Its in society's interests to make sure our kids have at least a high school diploma.

The fact some of those kids do not want to go to school is irrelevant.I do not know about you but when I was a kid I hated school. School was 7-8 hours of pure boredom to me. I would have rather hung out with friends, stayed home watching tv, working at a job or just wondering around than go to school. If we allowed kids to decide whether or not they wanted to go to school then school attendance would severely drop.
 
joG said:
I find that a very interesting question. Truancy and drop-out are the two main points, where the government actually could do something better than private education can. It is important to make children get schooling and acquire behavioral patterns compatible with work, because without these individuals become costly to everyone else later by becoming criminal or social cases. Allowing this to happen to large numbers of kids has weakened society over the last decades. Government has concentrated on teaching, which it does not do as well as private enterprise and neglected enforcement, which it does better.
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Actually in my experience the schools are nothing but havens for future criminals. They do *nothing* about severe bullying. You can't change someone like that. You can only get rid of them for the sake of everyone else. Saturday school, points, detention, none of that garbage works and in the meantime their victims, often very bright and well-behaved kids, suffer.
 
jamesrage said:
No one should be allowed to drop out.Its in society's interests to make sure our kids have at least a high school diploma.

The fact some of those kids do not want to go to school is irrelevant.I do not know about you but when I was a kid I hated school. School was 7-8 hours of pure boredom to me. I would have rather hung out with friends, stayed home watching tv, working at a job or just wondering around than go to school. If we allowed kids to decide whether or not they wanted to go to school then school attendance would severely drop.
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Agreed, it's about as dumb as saying some adults don't want to work. Okay, fine. They can starve. I have no responsibility toward those who will not work, any more than I have towards kids who will not learn (my own excluded, of course). So why should society take care of these people who won't take care of themselves? Screw 'em.
 
Helix said:
Among 16 to 24 year olds, the incarceration rate is sixty three times higher for dropouts. Plus, they are much more likely to live in poverty. That means the rest of us pick up the cost.

By the Numbers: Dropping Out of High School | Dropout Nation | FRONTLINE | PBS

They should at least have to complete high school.
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Nope they are people that need to be wapped upside the head by life. Then they either get their acts together or they don't. In the bell curve of life there are two sides to the bell.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Nope they are people that need to be wapped upside the head by life. Then they either get their acts together or they don't. In the bell curve of life there are two sides to the bell.
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"wapping" them upside the head costs us a bunch of money, and has all kinds of unintended consequence. no thanks. finish ****ing high school, and then get wapped.
 
Helix said:
"wapping" them upside the head costs us a bunch of money, and has all kinds of unintended consequence. no thanks. finish ****ing high school, and then get wapped.
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You seem to think high school would matter. It don't not with those kids. You cant rescue them all. Not to mention they have to want to be rescued. Stupidity is part and parcel of living in a free society. Sorry. If you don't want to pay for them then make the cost of failure damn near unbearable. That means no welfare. No handouts and walking over the dead in the street. It also means as a society we get back to the notion that work of ANY kind is good and whatever work we do we should do to the best of our abilities even if its just raking up leaves. Be the best leaf raker you can be. Mike Rowe has a few insights that I find to be quite valid. He has a website called Profoundly Disconnected check it out.
 
Helix said:
it's my opinion that dropping out should not be allowed at all, because there is a significant societal cost. a high school education should be the bare minimum; problem students can be channeled into at-risk programs.
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But what about the smart kids who already know the curriculum?

Why should they be forced to listen to teachers who are obviously SADFIs?
 
PirateMk1 said:
You seem to think high school would matter. It don't not with those kids. You cant rescue them all. Not to mention they have to want to be rescued. Stupidity is part and parcel of living in a free society. Sorry. If you don't want to pay for them then make the cost of failure damn near unbearable. That means no welfare. No handouts and walking over the dead in the street. It also means as a society we get back to the notion that work of ANY kind is good and whatever work we do we should do to the best of our abilities even if its just raking up leaves. Be the best leaf raker you can be. Mike Rowe has a few insights that I find to be quite valid. He has a website called Profoundly Disconnected check it out.
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there's no good reason to let kids drop out, and a lot of good reasons to not give them that option. They are not adults, and their decisions affect the rest of their lives, and ours, as well. Not to mention our pocketbooks.
 
Muhammed said:
But what about the smart kids who already know the curriculum?

Why should they be forced to listen to teachers who are obviously SADFIs?
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smart kids who are too advanced for high school should be able to test out and start college early.
 
Helix said:
smart kids who are too advanced for high school should be able to test out and start college early.
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What if they don't want to waste their time in college?

Most college teachers are SADFIs too, you know.
 
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Muhammed said:
What if they don't want college?

Many college teachers are SADFIs too.
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ok, I'll ask you so that you'll have your excuse to post some partisan inflammatory slogan. What is a sadfi?
 
Helix said:
there's no good reason to let kids drop out, and a lot of good reasons to not give them that option. They are not adults, and their decisions affect the rest of their lives, and ours, as well. Not to mention our pocketbooks.
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They affect you directly how? If you keep supporting then yes they do affect your pocketbook. If you don't wish your pocketbook to be affected stop supporting them. They are able to make stupid decisions because there is no consequence to their actions. Stop absorbing the consequence then more will stop being stupid. There is a certain amount of stupid people no amount of help or cohersion is going dissuade them from being stupid. Free society cant be free from making poor decisions otherwise its not free.
 
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