View Poll Results: Sould the drop out grade be lowered

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  • Yes

    10 24.39%
  • Keep it the same

    11 26.83%
  • the grade shouldent exist and they should stay in school till 12th grade

    20 48.78%
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Thread: Minimum drop out age

  1. #91
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    Re: Minimum drop out age

    Quote Originally Posted by JJB3333 View Post
    you know thats a good point. maybe as a contingency to keep them in school we could say that say if you dropped out before the current drop out grade (i think its 11th grade) you would have to serve a year in the military.
    I agree with this. Academics are not for everyone, but leaving it behind begs the question as to what replaces school. Something structured is needed. I don't care if delinquent kids aren't taking calculus. I do care that they're not roaming the neighborhood for houses and garages to break into while my wife and I are at work and my son is at school. Some sort of structured positive involvement would need to take school's place.

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    Re: Minimum drop out age

    Quote Originally Posted by JJB3333 View Post
    Ok so i would just like to ask something tha has been bugging me. Sould the drop our grade be lowered.I mean of course i accept that all kids should have an education, but why are we wasting money on so many kids who dont want to be there. We should have it so that say from 9th grade, if the kids want to drop out and riun their lifes, it is their choice. if the parents dont want them to, they can force them to stay in school, but you have all of these kids who are failing classes, ditching, sometimes even going to drugs, and we waste money putting them through year after years of school.

    So question: should the drop out grade be lowered from 11th grade
    Sure but with conditions. Not sure what those are, but perhaps things like a part-time job or perhaps lower the age they can go to a low-tech school for electrician, that sort of thing. We used to have those in both Middle and High school, wood shop, auto shop, etc. Perhaps instead of abandoning some schools and some teens, we could reopen those schools for the kids that find their interests aren't in the three R's. Or maybe allow for some resource, a voucher or something to enter a reasonably priced private vocational school.
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  3. #93
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    Re: Minimum drop out age

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    The point is that the standard educational SYSTEM in the USA only hits 35-40% of students. That's the books and teacher style in a standard classroom. In a machine shop environment, the student has to develop his reading skills for instructrion sets, then his algebra skills for digital programming, and keep accurate written records of his work. That's readin', writin', and rithmetic' from a non-standard, alternative educational system and perhaps it only hits 20%, but it's the part of the 60-65% that the standard system misses. You get the same results with a different motivator. Many of these students build their own businesses with hands on skill and motivation. Just an alternative, and it does not produce dummies.
    I hear what you're saying. It sounds good on the surface. You're saying that some people are just too stupid to finish high school. If they can't do that, they can't finish a trade school. But more importantly, read up on the stats. People who don't finish high school are doomed to a life of poverty. Some will start their own businesses (working on cars in their garages), but most will not be employable. A high school diploma is required for most legal employment that pays decently and provides benefits. The app doesn't ask if you are literate. The app asks if you finished high school. It's one way of screening the numerous applicants for those type of jobs, for one thing.

    Hope should not be given up on students thinking of dropping out. Each and every one should be encouraged to get a high school diploma. Finishing is important, if only to learn to finish something. Second, to get that diploma that will enable him to qualify for a lot more jobs. THEN a trade school might be the ticket.

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    Re: Minimum drop out age

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Sure but with conditions. Not sure what those are, but perhaps things like a part-time job or perhaps lower the age they can go to a low-tech school for electrician, that sort of thing. We used to have those in both Middle and High school, wood shop, auto shop, etc. Perhaps instead of abandoning some schools and some teens, we could reopen those schools for the kids that find their interests aren't in the three R's. Or maybe allow for some resource, a voucher or something to enter a reasonably priced private vocational school.
    You know, I kind of like that idea. Make it so that they are still in school, but doing stuff they actually care about.

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    Re: Minimum drop out age

    Quote Originally Posted by JJB3333 View Post
    Ok so i would just like to ask something tha has been bugging me. Sould the drop our grade be lowered.I mean of course i accept that all kids should have an education, but why are we wasting money on so many kids who dont want to be there. We should have it so that say from 9th grade, if the kids want to drop out and riun their lifes, it is their choice. if the parents dont want them to, they can force them to stay in school, but you have all of these kids who are failing classes, ditching, sometimes even going to drugs, and we waste money putting them through year after years of school.

    So question: should the drop out grade be lowered from 11th grade
    The drop out age should not be lowered. What needs to change is for politicians to stop trying to appease the ignorant masses that all kids need to take Algebra or learn about Shakespeare. We are wasting the kids time that don't need this, teachers time and money. We need to get these kids into pathways that will help them succeed in whatever trade they are interested in.
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    Re: Minimum drop out age

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Yes. Your teacher does not need to be smarter than you for you to learn something.
    At our school we are trying to get the student to be the teacher. They are included on the task, the parameters, the grading rubric peer and self assess. The teacher, in my case, just guides them and helps them during the process.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
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    Re: Minimum drop out age

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    The drop out age should not be lowered. What needs to change is for politicians to stop trying to appease the ignorant masses that all kids need to take Algebra or learn about Shakespeare. We are wasting the kids time that don't need this, teachers time and money. We need to get these kids into pathways that will help them succeed in whatever trade they are interested in.
    You see I would be OK with that. But in all reality, we are the farthest away from that. Consider that in most school districts, you have to take 4 years worth of English in high school, even when you cant see the point, even when you will never use it in the real world, even when its just busy work.

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    Re: Minimum drop out age

    Quote Originally Posted by JJB3333 View Post
    You see I would be OK with that. But in all reality, we are the farthest away from that. Consider that in most school districts, you have to take 4 years worth of English in high school, even when you cant see the point, even when you will never use it in the real world, even when its just busy work.
    As a teacher I am well aware of this folly. I live in a small town in a rural part of New Zealand which means that nobody lives here. The school though must follow Ministry guidelines and that means making English, Maths and Science MANDATORY 'til 10th and 11th grades. What a waste for so many of these dairy farmer kids. I was trying, and I mean trying, to teach many of these kids geographic and historical concepts that they couldn't even begin to grasp. I had a year of hell my first year here. I asked one boy what he thought he would do after failing all his classes and he didn't care. Said he would work on his dad's dairy farm and some of the other boys were too. I tried to make a link to what they were learning and couldn't. Asked them what they knew about dairy farming. They went off about how many cows per hour they could milk, what the machines did and how to fix them, tractors, feeding schedules, the works. I was actually stunned. I thought what a waste of a year we all have had. They are experts and dairy farming. I know that I sure as hell am not doing any of that and I know I want my milk and cheese, so I wished them good luck. But again, what a waste of time trying to teach them about tsunamis and the Vietnam War!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #99
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    Re: Minimum drop out age

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    As a teacher I am well aware of this folly. I live in a small town in a rural part of New Zealand which means that nobody lives here. The school though must follow Ministry guidelines and that means making English, Maths and Science MANDATORY 'til 10th and 11th grades. What a waste for so many of these dairy farmer kids. I was trying, and I mean trying, to teach many of these kids geographic and historical concepts that they couldn't even begin to grasp. I had a year of hell my first year here. I asked one boy what he thought he would do after failing all his classes and he didn't care. Said he would work on his dad's dairy farm and some of the other boys were too. I tried to make a link to what they were learning and couldn't. Asked them what they knew about dairy farming. They went off about how many cows per hour they could milk, what the machines did and how to fix them, tractors, feeding schedules, the works. I was actually stunned. I thought what a waste of a year we all have had. They are experts and dairy farming. I know that I sure as hell am not doing any of that and I know I want my milk and cheese, so I wished them good luck. But again, what a waste of time trying to teach them about tsunamis and the Vietnam War!
    Ha tell me about it. i live in a farming community and everyone is either freaking geniuses or idiots who expect just to farm and expect that their kids and grandkids will probably do the same. Personally i'm about average, but i couldn't live like that. I want to make something of my self and a lot of these classes are just useless to me.

    Thought. In american schools it is illegal to teach religion in public schools. Now I like science, but as it has officially become a religion (the church of Scientology), shouldn't it be illegal to teach sciences?

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    Re: Minimum drop out age

    Quote Originally Posted by JJB3333 View Post
    Thought. In american schools it is illegal to teach religion in public schools. Now I like science, but as it has officially become a religion (the church of Scientology), shouldn't it be illegal to teach sciences?
    Scientology literally has NOTHING to do with science. He made up some whack story about Aliens bringing humans here 75 million years ago and then we forgot who we were and where we came from. We are Xenu or whatever it was... nothing to do with science. Nothing. Science Fiction maybe... but not science.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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