View Poll Results: Who is the more sinister liar?

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  • Barack Hussein Obama

    39 47.56%
  • Richard Milhouse Nixon

    43 52.44%
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Thread: Obama vs. Nixon

  1. #171
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    Re: Obama vs. Nixon

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Because they know a lot more about the intelligence system than one article for the New York Times could "teach" them?

    I mean, what even about what you quoted could blame the Bush Administration?
    The sum total, from the 911 commission and the NYT article to Richard Clark's statements a year later, shows that Bush was focused on Saddam and Iraq. He paid no attention to Al Qaeda, ignored all warnings about it. As a result, we were attacked over a two hour period without generating a single effective response.

  2. #172
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    Re: Obama vs. Nixon

    There is only one liar in the two the OP gave us, and it isn't the one the OP chose..
    Policy isn't a LIE, but it seems to be okay for Nixon and Reagan to break the law..
    Physics is Phun

  3. #173
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    Re: Obama vs. Nixon

    Imagine if this would have happened to Gore..
    Issa would still be holding hearings..
    But Dems heeded the President's call for togetherness,
    something we only have in D.C. with a GOP President..

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    The sum total, from the 911 commission and the NYT article to Richard Clark's statements a year later, shows that Bush was focused on Saddam and Iraq. He paid no attention to Al Qaeda, ignored all warnings about it. As a result, we were attacked over a two hour period without generating a single effective response.
    Physics is Phun

  4. #174
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    Re: Obama vs. Nixon

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Why do so many people give Bush a pass for 911?
    Because there is no reason to implicate him.
    In the aftermath of 9/11, Bush officials attempted to deflect criticism that they had ignored C.I.A. warnings by saying they had not been told when and where the attack would occur. That is true, as far as it goes, but it misses the point. Throughout that summer, there were events that might have exposed the plans, had the government been on high alert. Indeed, even as the Aug. 6 brief was being prepared, Mohamed al-Kahtani, a Saudi believed to have been assigned a role in the 9/11 attacks, was stopped at an airport in Orlando, Fla., by a suspicious customs agent and sent back overseas on Aug. 4. Two weeks later, another co-conspirator, Zacarias Moussaoui, was arrested on immigration charges in Minnesota after arousing suspicions at a flight school. But the dots were not connected, and Washington did not react.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/op...ngs.html?_r=1&
    In the world of AT/FP (Anti terrorism /Force Protection, something I know a bit about... I would not call myself an expert, even though I have held the title) there is one thing that is certain. If someone wants you, they will get you. You have to make yourself a Hard Target to deter them, but in the end, a very determined enemy will find a way. Like the old adage, A lock is to keep an honest man, honest.

    We were not on High Alert then. Can you imagine the outrage of the people if the Patriot Act would have been proposed in July 2001? Hell, I flipped out after it was proposed and passed, even after the events of 9/11!!! The bad guys found a vulnerability and they exploited it. Even if we HAD been on a High Alert, your article even admits that they only "MIGHT" have seen it coming.
    As a dreamer of dreams and a travellin' man, I have chalked up many a mile.
    Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks and I've learned much from both of their styles!

  5. #175
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    Re: Obama vs. Nixon

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    The sum total, from the 911 commission and the NYT article to Richard Clark's statements a year later, shows that Bush was focused on Saddam and Iraq. He paid no attention to Al Qaeda, ignored all warnings about it. As a result, we were attacked over a two hour period without generating a single effective response.
    What specifically? Because I'll tell you right now that an al Qaeda ad OBL branch was already created in at least the CIA and NSA, and while I don't know about the CHOU (FBI's piece of that) or the DIA or anything, I will assume they had one, too. So what was Bush supposed to do? Concretely. Keeping in mind that you're speaking to someone with 10+ years of military intelligence experience.

    Remember the TSA wasn't even created yet- through no fault of Bush's- even had he taken that memo extra super serious- it wouldn't have been off the ground by then. So what was he to do? Concretely, not just "be better at presidenting".
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  6. #176
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    Re: Obama vs. Nixon

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    What specifically? Because I'll tell you right now that an al Qaeda ad OBL branch was already created in at least the CIA and NSA, and while I don't know about the CHOU (FBI's piece of that) or the DIA or anything, I will assume they had one, too. So what was Bush supposed to do? Concretely. Keeping in mind that you're speaking to someone with 10+ years of military intelligence experience.

    Remember the TSA wasn't even created yet- through no fault of Bush's- even had he taken that memo extra super serious- it wouldn't have been off the ground by then. So what was he to do? Concretely, not just "be better at presidenting".
    Had fighter jets at the ready, for one. Another proactive plan would have had all nineteen hijackers arrested for immigration violations long before 911, just like they did the twentieth hijacker.

  7. #177
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    Re: Obama vs. Nixon

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Had fighter jets at the ready, for one.
    Perhaps. Where? Everywhere? For how many days in a row before liberal groups would be decrying the extra expenditures that could've been used elsewhere, with nothing to show for it (because he wouldn't have shown that report or the intel leading to it)?

    Another proactive plan would have had all nineteen hijackers arrested for immigration violations long before 911, just like they did the twentieth hijacker.
    So he should've cracked down on tens of thousands of people who had legit papers to come into the country for...how long? How long until, honestly, people like you wouldn't been upset with him for it? How long would you have let it go? Fine, you would've until it was 'safe', I'm sure. How long do you think liberal opponents would've been cool with it?

    Again, consider that lots of attacks that are "imminent" never even happen. So will you be cool with that type of crackdown happening whenever a threat comes through? For how long? We get several serious threats a day, by the way...
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  8. #178
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    Re: Obama vs. Nixon

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefgator View Post
    Because there is no reason to implicate him.


    In the world of AT/FP (Anti terrorism /Force Protection, something I know a bit about... I would not call myself an expert, even though I have held the title) there is one thing that is certain. If someone wants you, they will get you. You have to make yourself a Hard Target to deter them, but in the end, a very determined enemy will find a way. Like the old adage, A lock is to keep an honest man, honest.

    We were not on High Alert then. Can you imagine the outrage of the people if the Patriot Act would have been proposed in July 2001? Hell, I flipped out after it was proposed and passed, even after the events of 9/11!!! The bad guys found a vulnerability and they exploited it. Even if we HAD been on a High Alert, your article even admits that they only "MIGHT" have seen it coming.
    I think they focused too much on Iraq while ignoring activity coming out of Afghanistan. This is especially true after the assassination on 9-9-2001 of Shah Masood, which was clearly a power grab by OBL and the Taliban.

    That by itself should have put ears to the ground. That such a big bold move by enemies of the US in Afghanistan did not put us on high alert still baffles me. We were asleep at the switch.

  9. #179
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    Re: Obama vs. Nixon

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Perhaps. Where? Everywhere? For how many days in a row before liberal groups would be decrying the extra expenditures that could've been used elsewhere, with nothing to show for it (because he wouldn't have shown that report or the intel leading to it)?



    So he should've cracked down on tens of thousands of people who had legit papers to come into the country for...how long? How long until, honestly, people like you wouldn't been upset with him for it? How long would you have let it go? Fine, you would've until it was 'safe', I'm sure. How long do you think liberal opponents would've been cool with it?

    Again, consider that lots of attacks that are "imminent" never even happen. So will you be cool with that type of crackdown happening whenever a threat comes through? For how long? We get several serious threats a day, by the way...
    THey knew the 19 dudes were the hijackers within hours of the Towers being hit. This tells me they had enough information on them to hold them and thus could have proactively stopped 911, if only the defenders of liberty had been on the ball.

  10. #180
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    Re: Obama vs. Nixon

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    THey knew the 19 dudes were the hijackers within hours of the Towers being hit. This tells me they had enough information on them to hold them and thus could have proactively stopped 911, if only the defenders of liberty had been on the ball.
    That's a huge assumption. How long does it take to ID most murders and such? I think you're talking about more procedural stuff, and people connecting dots after the fact. (Obviously, let's ignore eye-witness accounts).

    Honestly, I feel very, very strongly (and again, I'm a person that has worked in this field for awhile now, and I have twice voted for Obama) that you're reaching to an absurd amount. There's gonna be many murders committed tonight, between you reading this and tomorrow morning, and like a third of them will be, for all intents and purposes, solved by the time we finish out coffee. They'll have a primary suspect and that primary suspect will be arraigned and probably convicted.

    That doesn't mean the police could've just prevented it, though. Not without people rightfully being up in arms about all the superfluous people and things that were also restricted in the pursuit of preventing that crime.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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