View Poll Results: Who is the more sinister liar?

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  • Barack Hussein Obama

    39 47.56%
  • Richard Milhouse Nixon

    43 52.44%
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Thread: Obama vs. Nixon

  1. #151
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    Re: Obama vs. Nixon

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    *blinks*



    Now I know we are dealing with somebody that has absolutely no connection with reality.

    No, it was not "hours", try 32 minutes (8:46) from the time of the first hijacking (8:14). And only 9 minutes form the time that NORAD was first told of the first hijacking (8:37). The aircraft were actually scrambling at the time of the first impact.

    You really do not research anything, do you? You just make things up as you go along, hoping that everybody will buy your Kool-Aid.
    Facepalm yourself.
    The four flights were:
    American Airlines Flight 11: Left Boston's Logan Airport at 7:59 a.m. enroute to Los Angeles with a crew of 11 and 76 passengers, not including five hijackers. The hijackers flew the plane into the North Tower of the World Trade Center at 8:46 a.m.

    United Airlines Flight 175: Left Logan Airport at 8:14 a.m. enroute to Los Angeles with a crew of nine and 51 passengers, not including five hijackers. The hijackers flew the plane into the South Tower of the World Trade Center at 9:03 a.m.

    American Airlines Flight 77: Left Washington Dulles International Airport in Virginia at 8:20 a.m. enroute to Los Angeles with a crew of six and 53 passengers, not including five hijackers. The hijackers flew the plane into the Pentagon at 9:37 a.m.

    United Airlines Flight 93: Left Newark International Airport at 8:42 a.m. enroute to San Francisco, with a crew of seven and 33 passengers, not including four hijackers. As passengers attempted to subdue the hijackers, the aircraft crashed into the ground near Shanksville, Pennsylvania, at 10:03 a.m.
    From 8 am until 10--that's hours.

  2. #152
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    Re: Obama vs. Nixon

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post

    From 8 am until 10--that's hours.
    Er...why are you starting from 8? What happened at 8 that should've scrambled jets?

    While I think everyone blaming Obama or Bush for all the world's ills are failing to use nonbiased "logic", you're certainly ahead of the curve right now.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  3. #153
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    Re: Obama vs. Nixon

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Facepalm yourself.

    From 8 am until 10--that's hours.
    And the fighters were in the air by 8:46!

    That is not hours. They were in the air within 10 minutes of NORAD being told by the FAA that there was an active hijacking in progress.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Er...why are you starting from 8? What happened at 8 that should've scrambled jets?

    While I think everyone blaming Obama or Bush for all the world's ills are failing to use nonbiased "logic", you're certainly ahead of the curve right now.
    I am actually much more pragmatic.

    I recognize things happen, and some things can simply never be prevented. And then when they do, I look at how possible warning signs were treated, and the reaction afterwards.

    I see Benghazi as a fail. Not because of the attack itself, but that warning by the Ambassador and his staff for more security were ignored, and the actions to try and treat this as something else and lying to cover the butts of the administration as completely the wrong thing to do.

    In this, consider another situation where things went horrible wrong, Operation Eagle Claw. For those of us old enough to remember it, that was the aborted attempt to rescue the hostages in Iran in 1980. It did not work, things went horribly wrong, and people died.

    And I still give credit to President Carter for how he handled that.



    Now I do not think President Carter was a very good President. But I have always respected his integrity and honesty, and how he did not try to "Pass the buck" for everything that went wrong during his administration upon that of Presidents Nixon and Ford. I may not have liked President Carter or his decisions, but I always respected the man.

    And we saw absolutely nothing like this from the current administration. We saw obfuscation, spin and denial.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

  4. #154
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    Re: Obama vs. Nixon

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    We weren't even prepared enough to send fighter jets after those hijacked airliners. Hours passed and nothing was done, even after the first jet hit the tower. The jet that eventually hit the Pentagon flew lazily around DC and we did not one thing. Total screw up on our (Bush's) part.

    The Benghazi faux pas is nothing compared to that. Hell, Boston was more of a screw up than Benghazi.
    Why would they have been "prepared to send fighters"? There was no specific intel that they were going to crash planes in that manner. We do have jets sitting on a Ready 5, locked and cocked,.... but those still have to be launched at a credible threat.

    The fact of the matter is, no one knew that the first crash was deliberate until the second plane hit the tower, some suspected, but there was a lot of disbelief... Once the second plane hit, there was no doubt.
    As a dreamer of dreams and a travellin' man, I have chalked up many a mile.
    Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks and I've learned much from both of their styles!

  5. #155
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    Re: Obama vs. Nixon

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefgator View Post
    Why would they have been "prepared to send fighters"? There was no specific intel that they were going to crash planes in that manner. We do have jets sitting on a Ready 5, locked and cocked,.... but those still have to be launched at a credible threat.

    The fact of the matter is, no one knew that the first crash was deliberate until the second plane hit the tower, some suspected, but there was a lot of disbelief... Once the second plane hit, there was no doubt.
    I think that calamity thinks we are still in an early Cold War type of posture, where we have aircraft orbiting locked and loaded 24-7.

    And one of the biggest questions that still goes around those of us in the military to this day is "What would the fighters have done if they had found them before they hit?"

    Shoot them down? On who's authority? Does anybody have the authority to shoot down an unarmed civilian passenger plane? And finally, even if such an order was given would the pilot follow through with it?

    Being in Air Defense, myself and many others have discussed this as well. And we never really were able to come up with any kind of answer. But speaking for myself, at least honestly if I was given that kind of order on 10 September 2001, I would have refused to do so. Because there have been scores of hijackings prior to that day, and none of them was ever a real danger to the people on the ground.

    And even today, I would have a hard time pushing that button unless I knew the plane was going to hit something that would kill a great many more people.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

  6. #156
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    Re: Obama vs. Nixon

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefgator View Post
    Why would they have been "prepared to send fighters"? There was no specific intel that they were going to crash planes in that manner. We do have jets sitting on a Ready 5, locked and cocked,.... but those still have to be launched at a credible threat.

    The fact of the matter is, no one knew that the first crash was deliberate until the second plane hit the tower, some suspected, but there was a lot of disbelief... Once the second plane hit, there was no doubt.
    Wrong
    Bush knew of terrorist plot to hijack US planes | World news | The Observer
    Sources quoted by the Washington Post and ABC TV said that at least two names listed in a July 2001 FBI memo about an Arizona flight school had been identified by the CIA as having links to al-Qaeda. But the memo was not acted on or distributed to outside agencies.

    And, while administration officials have said repeatedly that intelligence analysts never imagined that terrorists would use planes in a suicide attack, a 1999 report for the National Intelligence Council warned that fanatics loyal to bin Laden might try to hijack a jetliner and fly it into the Pentagon.
    You Righties and your rabbit hole.

    You don't remember the "20th hijacker", the guy they arrested after he was acting weird in flight school?
    On August 16, 2001, Moussaoui was arrested by Harry Samit of the FBI and INS agents in Minnesota and charged with an immigration violation.[21] Materials itemized when he was arrested included a laptop computer, two knives, flight manuals pertaining to Boeing's 747 aircraft, a flight simulator computer program, fighting gloves and shin guards, and a computer disk with information about crop dusting.

    Some agents worried that his flight training had violent intentions, so the Minnesota bureau tried to get permission (sending over 70 emails in a week) to search his laptop, but they were turned down.[22] FBI agent Coleen Rowley made an explicit request for permission to search Moussaoui's personal rooms. This request was first denied by her superior, Deputy General Counsel Marion "Spike" Bowman, and later rejected based upon FISA regulations (amended after 9/11 by the USA Patriot Act). Several further search attempts similarly failed.

    Ahmed Ressam, the captured al-Qaeda Millennium Bomber, was at the time sharing information with the US authorities, in an effort to gain leniency in his sentencing. One person whom he was not asked about until after 9/11, but whom he was able to identify when asked as having trained with him at al-Qaeda's Khalden Camp in Afghanistan, was Moussaoui.[23] The 9/11 Commission Report opined that had Ressam been asked about Moussaoui, he would have broken the FBI's logjam.[23] Had that happened, the Report opined, the U.S. might conceivably have disrupted or derailed the September 11 attacks altogether.

    Zacarias Moussaoui - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  7. #157
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    Re: Obama vs. Nixon

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    I think that calamity thinks we are still in an early Cold War type of posture, where we have aircraft orbiting locked and loaded 24-7.

    And one of the biggest questions that still goes around those of us in the military to this day is "What would the fighters have done if they had found them before they hit?"

    Shoot them down? On who's authority? Does anybody have the authority to shoot down an unarmed civilian passenger plane? And finally, even if such an order was given would the pilot follow through with it?

    Being in Air Defense, myself and many others have discussed this as well. And we never really were able to come up with any kind of answer. But speaking for myself, at least honestly if I was given that kind of order on 10 September 2001, I would have refused to do so. Because there have been scores of hijackings prior to that day, and none of them was ever a real danger to the people on the ground.

    And even today, I would have a hard time pushing that button unless I knew the plane was going to hit something that would kill a great many more people.
    Bush ****ed up on his 9-11 far more than Obama did on his, but yet all you Righties whine about is how Obama ****ed up in Bnghazi.

    Like I said, most of the country now sees the RW as a big stupid joke.

  8. #158
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    Re: Obama vs. Nixon

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Er...why are you starting from 8? What happened at 8 that should've scrambled jets?

    While I think everyone blaming Obama or Bush for all the world's ills are failing to use nonbiased "logic", you're certainly ahead of the curve right now.
    Point is those blaming Obama for Benghazi but giving a pss to Bush for 911 are hypocrites. That's all.

  9. #159
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    Re: Obama vs. Nixon

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Point is those blaming Obama for Benghazi but giving a pss to Bush for 911 are hypocrites. That's all.
    So you felt like you'd just blatantly tell a lie and hope it made your point?

    Or did you just purposely say something dumb as hell in order to be facetious? I mean, you can't believe that anyone should've responded at 8AM to anything on September 11th, 2001, can you? You just said something retarded on purpose, right?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

  10. #160
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    Re: Obama vs. Nixon

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Wrong
    Bush knew of terrorist plot to hijack US planes | World news | The Observer


    You Righties and your rabbit hole.

    You don't remember the "20th hijacker", the guy they arrested after he was acting weird in flight school?
    I am a " Righty" now because I disagree with you. SMDH


    The fact is, until an attack was made using that TTP, it was just speculation. Almost no one believe they could/would do it. Most Americans just could not fathom that someone would be so fanatical that they could commit suicide just to prove a point of idology. Many still cannot fathom it.

    I never said there were no mistakes. Some were pretty egregious. But to dump everything on Bush is a stretch. An even bigger stretch than to dump Benghazi on Obama. That was much more the fault of the SoS than the POTUS.



    BUT......................... it is interesting how this went from a A vs. B discussion and morphed into a "Oh yeah! well C is much worse!!!"
    As a dreamer of dreams and a travellin' man, I have chalked up many a mile.
    Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks and I've learned much from both of their styles!

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