View Poll Results: What Happened Here?

Voters
56. You may not vote on this poll
  • Did Obama purposely mislead people about keeping your insurance?

    40 71.43%
  • Was it an honest misstatement?

    3 5.36%
  • Was more implied and the description over simplified?

    10 17.86%
  • None of the above.

    3 5.36%
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Thread: Keeping Insurance: Did Obama Purposely Mislead

  1. #21
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    Re: Keeping Insurance: Did Obama Purposely Mislead

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    Well...were they justified?

    True true, but I think they hated Obamacare not necessarily because they dislike Obama personally (although I think frustration with him is at an all time high), but rather because Republicans are against vast expansion of federal government in social welfare programs, which is what Obamacare essentially is. In other words, it's a legitimate ideological rift vice personal. Just like Democrats would cry to high heaven and obstruct to the max if Republicans were in charge and about to cancel social security or medicaid or something (even though time and our deficit will eventually kill them anyway more than likely).
    I think it's clear that many Republicans PERSONALLY hate Obama and would obstruct just about anything he opposed. Here's an excerpt of a post in this forum about "Obummacare" by Huu Long or something like that:

    As to the Monumental Fraud Obama's Commie/Socialist background, here is the basic information, each of the facts readily available for verification from various TV news outlets, and the National Media in general.

    Obama's parents were both self-avowed Commies. His mother actually even hated her own race. And his mother's father, Obama's grandfather was a devoted Commie who got him a notorious Commie Frank Marshall Davis as a mentor .......all this from Obama's own book: "Dreams from my Father".

    Some more about Obama's upbringing and relatives: Shortly before Obama's Presidential Campaign Obama visited his Kenyan relatives, all of whom were decidedly Muslim Communists. Obama went to several rallies where Raila Odinga, the Murderous Rapist known throughout Africa as the "African Stalin" was championing his Communist "Orange Party for Democracy". Obama had several photo-ops with this monster, arm in arm, smiling. And later, at an all Muslim Communist gathering with the rest of his Kenyan Family, Obama had the famous photo with him in his African garb and a turban ..... one of those photos had Raila Odinga looking on. BTW, the Monster Raila Odinga was denounced by our State Dept for slaughtering men,women and children in the thousands as part of his ethnic cleansing.

    Somehow, all this does not negate Obama's leaning towards the Commie ideology.

    Later, Obama becomes a "Community Organizer" i.e., a Rabble Rouser with the criminally indicted Voter Scam Organization, ACORN wanted by the FBI in approx 15 States. This is where Obama has a historically documented almost inseparable friendly relationship with an Unrepentant, Homicidal and Maniacal Commie/Terrorist Bill Ayers. These two unsavoury characters share the same Board at ACORN, the same speaking platforms where they spewed the same Commie Crappola, and were seen gallivanting frequently together at the various restaurants. Not only that, Obama kicked off his Senatorial Career from Ayers' home.

    Want more ? Obama was Ayers' protege at the Nationally known, Most Notoriously Corrupt Chicago Political Machine run by Commies and the Mafioso ...... and Obama had the telling meteoric rise thru that Corrupt Organization. I wonder why ?????

    Also, Obama's Senatorial Career was notable because he established himself to be the Leftiest Senator in Senatorial History to the left of even the Icon of Dem Morality, Ted Kennedy, The Chappaquidick Murderer (may he roast in Hell !).
    That's a post about Obamacare, mind you. That seems like personal animosity to me. I wish I could say that was a weird, rare type of post, but I have seen far too many of these over the years.

  2. #22
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    Re: Keeping Insurance: Did Obama Purposely Mislead

    anonymous polls suck

    Obama sucks more



  3. #23
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    Re: Keeping Insurance: Did Obama Purposely Mislead

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    We don't have an impartial media in this country, it's all a bunch of biased idiots going for ratings. Nobody in the mainstream media does normal investigative journalism anymore.
    They certainly don't wear out shoes anymore.

  4. #24
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    Re: Keeping Insurance: Did Obama Purposely Mislead

    Obama lies and the people who voted for him fell for his lies hook line and sinker.
    Last edited by Born Free; 11-06-13 at 11:06 PM.
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  5. #25
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    Re: Keeping Insurance: Did Obama Purposely Mislead

    Let me parse this up so I can try to respond coherently haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by JumpinJack View Post
    No, not justified.
    Good, there is hope for you yet!

    Quote Originally Posted by JumpinJack View Post
    I do think the Republicans personally dislike Obama and anything he proposes (except waging war). I do think it's evident that a certain percentage of the Republican Party just can't get over the fact that a black man is President. His race shows up repeatedly at Tea Party rallies and references by far-right politicians. There were pics of Obama made up as a witchdoctor at Tea Party rallies, another time he was shown in pimp getup, and the like. References by Palin to "shuck and jive," referring to Obama. The Kenya crazy birther thing is based on race. There was an e-mail distributed by a Republican elected official (last year?) about Obama as a monkey, or something like that. The race shows up repeatedly, directly or indirectly. I underestimated the racism that exists in the country.
    I believe you're right that some people have probably let their frustration turn into a kind of dislike and animus, but hate is a pretty strong word. That being said, there are racists and nut jobs on both sides, I think you would agree...and it's pretty safe to assume that white supremacists hate Obama like anyone else in their laundry list of hate-ees. I think the other spectrum of this is that SOME liberals look for race in each and every thing they see, especially related to criticism of this president (not necessarily unjustified since he is their president and the first black one at that...so naturally). Just google "funny bush pictures" in images and you'll see a host of similar musings, but I don't say that without conceding that you are also right in your observation to a minimal degree as it applies to certain fringe peoples.

    Quote Originally Posted by JumpinJack View Post
    The Republicans can be this way. (Mind you, I belong to neither party.) They had a very personal animosity to the Clintons from the start. They went on personal crusades against them, even to the point of accusing Hillary Clinton of having someone murdered. Really wacko stuff. Until Bill Clinton handed himself to them on a platter, like an idiot.
    Eh, typical partisan nut job pot shots. To be expected.

    Quote Originally Posted by JumpinJack View Post
    The Republicans didn't argue against Obamacare on policy issues. They dug their heels in and just tried to obstruct it (even after the Dems accepted something like 200 Republican amendments, only to have no Republicans vote for it). They did NOT propose a competing reform act, which is what opposing parties normally do, when they have policy differences with the party in power. It was personal, it was hateful. It was not policy driven, for the most part. There were a few who had policy objections (McCain, I think).
    Wellllll, let's be honest. Was there really time to argue against it? Did they really have the time or power to propose a competing reform act? Do you remember when it was passed, the time frame it was passed in? Christmas Eve 2009. Christmas Eve for god's sake. Passed by the house a month before, but literally rushed through the house by Pelosi without any reading it or any time to really debate it or build consensus. It's not like they spent a long time trying to build consensus or debate policy etc. They sure didn't spend any time reading it. I realize you probably won't release your view of it being personal and hateful, but I just disagree with you on that.

    Boehner: GOP Plan Lowers Costs, Increases Access to Quality Health Care - YouTube (November 2009)

    Quote Originally Posted by JumpinJack View Post
    Obamacare was a Republican plan. If a Republican President had proposed it, the Republicans would have amended it and passed it. Because they fall in line and pass their Republican leadership plans (this was pre-tea party).
    Source? I heard that there was some looking into something like this in the 90s but didn't have support. If you're referring to Romney, then I would say you're comparing apples to oranges because state programs are different than what is necessary at a federal level. So like apple and oranges are round, they taste different; and like state and federal are both government, they have different methodologies/purposes. Either way, this is hardly a Republican plan. If it were, I'm sure some Republicans would have voted for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JumpinJack View Post
    Comparing Obamacare to SS and Medicare is not quite accurate, I think. Obamacare was not law. It was a proposed act. Social Security (which is solvent, BTW, and will continue to be for another couple of decades) and Medicare are established laws, and are quite popular (ESPECIALLY to older Republicans). Social Security has been a very successful program, doing what it was intended to do. Medicare has some financial issues, MAINLY BECAUSE OF THE PART D THAT BUSH PUSHED THROUGH WITHOUT FUNDING. Obamacare did not add to the Medicare issues. It reworked some provisions, taking away some, adding to others.
    Why is that comparison not quite accurate? Obamacare IS a law, so I don't understand the point of that sentence. A program that is insolvent in the future IS insolvent. That's like saying social security is solvent...for two days. I said Medicaid, not medicare. Again, social security has been very successful up until I become a senior at which time it probably won't be available (because it's insolvent at that time). The rest of the paragraph is more of the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by JumpinJack View Post
    So the Republicans would have trouble privatizing SS and Medicare, even among its own ranks. It's not just Democrats who would not go along with that. Most older people are Republicans.
    ...getting back to our original foray...perhaps they could just lie and make grandiose speeches misleading those old people

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    Re: Keeping Insurance: Did Obama Purposely Mislead

    He lied and people will be dying needlessly, healthcare took 5 steps backwards

  7. #27
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    Re: Keeping Insurance: Did Obama Purposely Mislead

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Obama denies videotaped "you can keep it" promises | The Daily Caller

    In this article Obama is trying to say more was implied with the healthcare reform and that what he really said was something else.
    Is this being disingenuous and back peddling, reasonable explanation or simply dishonest?
    Does it matter at this point? He's tried to Chicago his way through so many scandals I don't know what to believe anymore. I trust the guy about as far as I could throw Chris Christie.
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  8. #28
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    Re: Keeping Insurance: Did Obama Purposely Mislead

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    The improvement part is that insurance companies wouldn't be able to deny or drop coverage for prior conditions. But the improvements come at the costs you mention to offset the losses the companies would be hit with. I heard it explained in these terms, that if you make the insurance companies pay out more for sick people and don't have healthy people paying in they go broke.
    That changes nothing I said. The working poor still can't afford to actually use their insurance, now they're just forced to pay for it anyhow.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Keeping Insurance: Did Obama Purposely Mislead

    Quote Originally Posted by JumpinJack View Post
    At first, I thought he was mistaken or that those in his admin. told him that (even if they may have known it wasn't quite true). But now I think that he may well have lied out of frustration, to get the bill passed.
    His lack of desire to change any of the more obvious problems with the Bill don't tide well with his intentions. But there's no way of really knowing what he knew beforehand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    That changes nothing I said. The working poor still can't afford to actually use their insurance, now they're just forced to pay for it anyhow.
    Who said I was trying to change anything? I actually agreed and know the deductibles on these new policies are so high $4-5K you might as well not have coverage, except for catastrophic illness.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  10. #30
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    Re: Keeping Insurance: Did Obama Purposely Mislead

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Does it matter at this point? He's tried to Chicago his way through so many scandals I don't know what to believe anymore. I trust the guy about as far as I could throw Chris Christie.
    It always matters, even if we feel impotent to effect change. I don't trust most people, more less promise making politicians.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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