View Poll Results: What Happened Here?

Voters
56. You may not vote on this poll
  • Did Obama purposely mislead people about keeping your insurance?

    40 71.43%
  • Was it an honest misstatement?

    3 5.36%
  • Was more implied and the description over simplified?

    10 17.86%
  • None of the above.

    3 5.36%
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Thread: Keeping Insurance: Did Obama Purposely Mislead

  1. #11
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    Re: Keeping Insurance: Did Obama Purposely Mislead

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Wow, poll results don't look good for him so far. I'm not sure he knows much about the details of things because there's so much a President has to hear about on a daily basis. But it does seem unrealistic that he didn't know about the insurance mandates and new regulations/guidelines being enforced.

    He obviously didn't know what a disaster the website was or he would've had it fixed beforehand. I'm not sure what's worse being uninformed or intentionally misleading. I doubt anyone who doesn't want to sign up will do it with only a $95 fine, until 2015 when it goes up to $325. But losing a plan that cost less, even if it's less coverage doesn't sound fair.
    With the law requiring exchange (all?) insurers to issue a policy to anyone (at any time?), why not just wait until you (or one of your dependents) get seriously sick to buy insurance? The annual fine is typically less than one month's premium cost. It makes sense to stash away enough to cover a few month's premiums (just in case) and only buy insurance when/if the need arrises.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  2. #12
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    Re: Keeping Insurance: Did Obama Purposely Mislead

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    With the law requiring exchange (all?) insurers to issue a policy to anyone (at any time?), why not just wait until you (or one of your dependents) get seriously sick to buy insurance? The annual fine is typically less than one month's premium cost. It makes sense to stash away enough to cover a few month's premiums (just in case) and only buy insurance when/if the need arrises.

    Health reform of some kind is definitely needed but many aspects of this new provision don't make sense. The penalties and forcing higher coverages and premiums make it appear as if this wasn't vetted very well. If they don't make some adjustments soon it's going to be a monumental flop.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Keeping Insurance: Did Obama Purposely Mislead

    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    if the media would have done their job and would have investigated the rights claims that have all came to fruition the law wouldn't have passed
    We don't have an impartial media in this country, it's all a bunch of biased idiots going for ratings. Nobody in the mainstream media does normal investigative journalism anymore.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Keeping Insurance: Did Obama Purposely Mislead

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Health reform of some kind is definitely needed but many aspects of this new provision don't make sense. The penalties and forcing higher coverages and premiums make it appear as if this wasn't vetted very well. If they don't make some adjustments soon it's going to be a monumental flop.
    The whole thing doesn't make any sense, especially for the working poor. They're forced to buy insurance they don't need or want at rates they cannot afford or face fines they cannot afford, to get coverage with deductibles they cannot afford. So now, they're paying for insurance they can't even use because they can't afford to pay for the deductibles. And this is an improvement?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  5. #15
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    Re: Keeping Insurance: Did Obama Purposely Mislead

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    The whole thing doesn't make any sense, especially for the working poor. They're forced to buy insurance they don't need or want at rates they cannot afford or face fines they cannot afford, to get coverage with deductibles they cannot afford. So now, they're paying for insurance they can't even use because they can't afford to pay for the deductibles. And this is an improvement?
    The improvement part is that insurance companies wouldn't be able to deny or drop coverage for prior conditions. But the improvements come at the costs you mention to offset the losses the companies would be hit with. I heard it explained in these terms, that if you make the insurance companies pay out more for sick people and don't have healthy people paying in they go broke.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  6. #16
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    Re: Keeping Insurance: Did Obama Purposely Mislead

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Obama denies videotaped "you can keep it" promises | The Daily Caller

    In this article Obama is trying to say more was implied with the healthcare reform and that what he really said was something else.
    Is this being disingenuous and back peddling, reasonable explanation or simply dishonest?
    At first, I thought he was mistaken or that those in his admin. told him that (even if they may have known it wasn't quite true). But now I think that he may well have lied out of frustration, to get the bill passed.

  7. #17
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    Re: Keeping Insurance: Did Obama Purposely Mislead

    Quote Originally Posted by JumpinJack View Post
    At first, I thought he was mistaken or that those in his admin. told him that (even if they may have known it wasn't quite true). But now I think that he may well have lied out of frustration, to get the bill passed.
    So, the ends justify the means? Or perhaps, "lying to the american people is justified by the roll out of this wonderful piece of legislation" ? Anyway, congrats on being the only liberal to answer this thread so far and a response that wasn't partisan in the least.

  8. #18
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    Re: Keeping Insurance: Did Obama Purposely Mislead

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    So, the ends justify the means? Or perhaps, "lying to the american people is justified by the roll out of this wonderful piece of legislation" ? Anyway, congrats on being the only liberal to answer this thread so far and a response that wasn't partisan in the least.
    Not at all. I merely answered the question. It didn't ask "and were Obama's actions justified?"

    No, whether by incompetence, ignorance, or dishonesty, or the reason for the dishonesty, the result has been destructive and is hurting millions of Americans. Of course, the Republicans didn't rely on his statements, whatever he said. They assumed he was lying about everything, I believe. (Remember the "You Lie!" statement that a Republican yelled out to Obama during the State of the Union address, when Obama said it would not apply to illegal immigrants?

    So his statement has hurt mainly, ironically, his supporters and those in the middle. Those on the right hated Obamacare and wanted to stop it from the start and have never rested from that position. Whatever the policy amounts are for 2014 or whether people would be able to keep their old policies, the Republicans would STILL be against Obamacare in full. Remember the government shutdown we just went through, to try to defund Obamacare, BEFORE we knew about these issues with cancellations and high premium prices?

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    Re: Keeping Insurance: Did Obama Purposely Mislead

    Quote Originally Posted by JumpinJack View Post
    Not at all. I merely answered the question. It didn't ask "and were Obama's actions justified?"

    No, whether by incompetence, ignorance, or dishonesty, or the reason for the dishonesty, the result has been destructive and is hurting millions of Americans. Of course, the Republicans didn't rely on his statements, whatever he said. They assumed he was lying about everything, I believe. (Remember the "You Lie!" statement that a Republican yelled out to Obama during the State of the Union address, when Obama said it would not apply to illegal immigrants?

    So his statement has hurt mainly, ironically, his supporters and those in the middle. Those on the right hated Obamacare and wanted to stop it from the start and have never rested from that position. Whatever the policy amounts are for 2014 or whether people would be able to keep their old policies, the Republicans would STILL be against Obamacare in full. Remember the government shutdown we just went through, to try to defund Obamacare, BEFORE we knew about these issues with cancellations and high premium prices?
    Well...were they justified?

    True true, but I think they hated Obamacare not necessarily because they dislike Obama personally (although I think frustration with him is at an all time high), but rather because Republicans are against vast expansion of federal government in social welfare programs, which is what Obamacare essentially is. In other words, it's a legitimate ideological rift vice personal. Just like Democrats would cry to high heaven and obstruct to the max if Republicans were in charge and about to cancel social security or medicaid or something (even though time and our deficit will eventually kill them anyway more than likely).

  10. #20
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    Re: Keeping Insurance: Did Obama Purposely Mislead

    Quote Originally Posted by SBu View Post
    Well...were they justified?

    True true, but I think they hated Obamacare not necessarily because they dislike Obama personally (although I think frustration with him is at an all time high), but rather because Republicans are against vast expansion of federal government in social welfare programs, which is what Obamacare essentially is. In other words, it's a legitimate ideological rift vice personal. Just like Democrats would cry to high heaven and obstruct to the max if Republicans were in charge and about to cancel social security or medicaid or something (even though time and our deficit will eventually kill them anyway more than likely).
    No, not justified.

    I do think the Republicans personally dislike Obama and anything he proposes (except waging war). I do think it's evident that a certain percentage of the Republican Party just can't get over the fact that a black man is President. His race shows up repeatedly at Tea Party rallies and references by far-right politicians. There were pics of Obama made up as a witchdoctor at Tea Party rallies, another time he was shown in pimp getup, and the like. References by Palin to "shuck and jive," referring to Obama. The Kenya crazy birther thing is based on race. There was an e-mail distributed by a Republican elected official (last year?) about Obama as a monkey, or something like that. The race shows up repeatedly, directly or indirectly. I underestimated the racism that exists in the country.

    The Republicans can be this way. (Mind you, I belong to neither party.) They had a very personal animosity to the Clintons from the start. They went on personal crusades against them, even to the point of accusing Hillary Clinton of having someone murdered. Really wacko stuff. Until Bill Clinton handed himself to them on a platter, like an idiot.

    The Republicans didn't argue against Obamacare on policy issues. They dug their heels in and just tried to obstruct it (even after the Dems accepted something like 200 Republican amendments, only to have no Republicans vote for it). They did NOT propose a competing reform act, which is what opposing parties normally do, when they have policy differences with the party in power. It was personal, it was hateful. It was not policy driven, for the most part. There were a few who had policy objections (McCain, I think).

    Obamacare was a Republican plan. If a Republican President had proposed it, the Republicans would have amended it and passed it. Because they fall in line and pass their Republican leadership plans (this was pre-tea party).

    Comparing Obamacare to SS and Medicare is not quite accurate, I think. Obamacare was not law. It was a proposed act. Social Security (which is solvent, BTW, and will continue to be for another couple of decades) and Medicare are established laws, and are quite popular (ESPECIALLY to older Republicans). Social Security has been a very successful program, doing what it was intended to do. Medicare has some financial issues, MAINLY BECAUSE OF THE PART D THAT BUSH PUSHED THROUGH WITHOUT FUNDING. Obamacare did not add to the Medicare issues. It reworked some provisions, taking away some, adding to others.

    So the Republicans would have trouble privatizing SS and Medicare, even among its own ranks. It's not just Democrats who would not go along with that. Most older people are Republicans.

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