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What Should Be Punishment for Plagiarism for an Adult?

What Should Be Punishment for Plagiarism for an Adult?

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DVSentinel said:
Ah, I see. Because I criticized Liberals and other socialist types, I must therefore be conservative. How exactly does that work as anything other then demonstrating an inability to consider anything more complex than a binary data set?
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What? What does that even mean? I can't consider that there's anything more complex than a, what, 'binary data set'? What the hell is a binary data set in this discussion?
 
USViking said:
Three terms fall well short of pervasive authorship.
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Who said it was three terms? Their development and the conceptual understanding of them can be attributed to Marx - everyone who came after him basically took a page from Das Kapital and put their own spin on his magnus opus. Plagiarism at work. :shrug:
 
DVSentinel said:
You mean things like their constant hate speech. Their racial intolerance for white heterosexual Christian males. Their constant rhetoric about how successful white males have caused all the suffering in the world. The constant call for the purging of all non-liberal/socialist/progressives from politics, blaming them for everything bad but refusing to actually hold their own accountable.

Those kind of things?
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Please show me liberals plagiarizing/quoting Hitler and using his views on the "intolerance for white heterosexual Christian males". Thanks.

2nd time I ask. Show us evidence. No more politicking. Just post the evidence. :)
 
Hatuey said:
Who said it was three terms?
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You only gave three terms, and in order to convince anyone you might have a case you need to provide, oh, two or three dozen more.


Hatuey said:
Their development and the conceptual understanding of them can be attributed to Marx - everyone who came after him basically took a page from Das Kapital and put their own spin on his magnus opus. Plagiarism at work. :shrug:
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I think it is probably safe to say that few if any modern economists would agree with you, except maybe for the ones in Cuba, North Korea, and a few (now very few) academic departments elsewhere.
 
Hatuey said:
Please show me liberals plagiarizing/quoting Hitler and using his views on the "intolerance for white heterosexual Christian males". Thanks.

2nd time I ask. Show us evidence. No more politicking. Just post the evidence. :)
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And a second time I won't answer because what you ask is not what I said.
 
USViking said:
You only gave three terms, and in order to convince anyone you might have a case you need to provide, oh, two or three dozen more.
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http://brommage.freeshell.org/marx/su07/glossary.pdf

commodity, labor, wage labor, concentration of capital, capitalist class.

I think it is probably safe to say that few if any modern economists would agree with you, except maybe for the ones in Cuba, North Korea, and a few (now very few) academic departments elsewhere.
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I'm not threatened by spurious and uneducated associations. If you can find me a more detailed study of capitalism than Marx's - I'm open to suggestions. Again, Marx's work and analysis of capitalists society is quite possibly the most important piece of work by an economist since the Code of Hammurabi. Find me a book that can hold a candle to Das Kapital in the last 100 years? What? Atlas Shrugged? Please.
 
DVSentinel said:
And a second time I won't answer because what you ask is not what I said.
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Oh yes you did. You said Liberals plagiarize Hitler. Then you qualified your statement as to what they plagiarized. So I asked you to show some evidence. Come on now.
 
Public criticism is good enough. That being said, I'm not moved in the slightest. Politicians and their staff borrow ideas all the time in speeches.
 
Hatuey said:
Oh yes you did. You said Liberals plagiarize Hitler. Then you qualified your statement as to what they plagiarized. So I asked you to show some evidence. Come on now.
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They plagiarized the intolerance. Only the liberals changed Jews, Gypsies, blacks and Homosexuals to Conservatives, Christians, Whites and heterosexuals. Same intolerance, same intolerant rhetoric, even a lot of the early methodologies. No, they haven't yet moved on to the "final solution", but I am not holding my breath that they won't try to implement it.
 
Hatuey said:
http://brommage.freeshell.org/marx/su07/glossary.pdf

commodity, labor, wage labor, concentration of capital, capitalist class.
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Your citation does not claim that Marx was the author of any of the terms.



Hatuey said:
I'm not threatened by spurious and uneducated associations. If you can find me a more detailed study of capitalism than Marx's - I'm open to suggestions.
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I am not sure that what you call detail is actually important, and I would say that the post-Marxist study of capitalism probably runs to millions of pages now in print.



Hatuey said:
Again, Marx's work and analysis of capitalists society is quite possibly the most important piece of work by an economist since the Code of Hammurabi.
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Hammurabi was not an economist, he was a king, and his code was not an economic treatise, it was a legal code.



Hatuey said:
Find me a book that can hold a candle to Das Kapital in the last 100 years? What? Atlas Shrugged? Please.
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I doubt any professional economist takes Rand seriously. Try Keynes, though, or Friedman.
 
Indeed, how dare we expect our politicians to tell voters what they think in their own words when it's so much easier to tell people what others have thought. Why let perfectly good published words go uncopied??? Surely our time is worth too much to be bothered with writing our own stuff, and besides everyone knows that laws don't apply to the people who actually write said laws; they only apply to the rest of us powerless losers!

/sarcasm

Plagiarism is bad, mkay? And repeatedly stealing the words of others is a pretty big red flag as to the lack of ethics of the one doing the stealing, and feeling like he/she has every right to confiscate anything that belongs to another if they freaking well feel like it, 'cause they are special snowflakes, don'tcha know!
 
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DVSentinel said:
They plagiarized the intolerance. Only the liberals changed Jews, Gypsies, blacks and Homosexuals to Conservatives, Christians, Whites and heterosexuals. Same intolerance, same intolerant rhetoric, even a lot of the early methodologies. No, they haven't yet moved on to the "final solution", but I am not holding my breath that they won't try to implement it.
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Ah, so you can't specifically cite anything they plagiarized. I'm glad you have no evidence whatsoever. I almost got worried.
 
USViking said:
You grammar stinks and the thoughts behind it don't pass any smell tests either.

It is people like you who give conservatiism a bad name
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You cannot blame me if others cannot read that I am not a conservative. It is not my intention to influence anything pro or con towards conservatives, unless of course, I specifically bring them up. The misunderstanding of others should not reflect upon you or yours.
 
aberrant85 said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/06/u...l-announces-office-restructuring.html?hp&_r=0



I can't decide if this is silly or pathetic, but at the very least it's embarrassing for a grown-ass man. In school plagiarism can be grounds for expulsion. What should it be for real adults in the real world?
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They are already laws for this. It would be up to the individual who owns the rights to the work to file charges. Prison sentences are very rare unless you are making millions of dollars off of pirating movies or something like that.

The owner of the work could be entitled to financial compensation that resulted from the work being copied. I see no financial damages in this instance. I would have to recommend no punishment in this case.
 
DVSentinel said:
They plagiarized the intolerance. Only the liberals changed Jews, Gypsies, blacks and Homosexuals to Conservatives, Christians, Whites and heterosexuals. Same intolerance, same intolerant rhetoric, even a lot of the early methodologies. No, they haven't yet moved on to the "final solution", but I am not holding my breath that they won't try to implement it.
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You have delivered the lulz for this thread, thankyou.
 
It depends on the job. A professional writer or news reporter engaging in plagiarism is much worse than a speech being given by a politician.

Herman Cain was plagiarizing pokemon speeches and stealing his economic ideas from The Sims in a effort to appeal to the gamer vote.
 
aberrant85 said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/06/u...l-announces-office-restructuring.html?hp&_r=0



I can't decide if this is silly or pathetic, but at the very least it's embarrassing for a grown-ass man. In school plagiarism can be grounds for expulsion. What should it be for real adults in the real world?
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It depends on whether or not the plagiarism is innocent and how substantial it is. I imagine there are many terms and phrases that, while originated by someone deserving of attribution, have been absorbed by the language and culture to the point where they could be considered public property. Additionally, sometimes when we read or hear things we pick them up without noting where they came from, recalling only the truth of the thing.

I think someone who plagiarizes definitely deserves a certain measure of ridicule, and if the plagiarism is substantial and for profit I think it's appropriate for the copyright holder to sue. If the plagiarism is substantial and done as part of a work for hire, that's grounds for immediate termination for the sake of the employer's reputation.

What qualifies as substantial? Something beyond a term, a turn of phrase or an expression. There has to be enough lifted from someone else's work that if it is cut away from your work the meaning and/or impact is affected.
 
aberrant85 said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/06/u...l-announces-office-restructuring.html?hp&_r=0



I can't decide if this is silly or pathetic, but at the very least it's embarrassing for a grown-ass man. In school plagiarism can be grounds for expulsion. What should it be for real adults in the real world?
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We have laws on this which work just fine. I see no reason to change them.

In Paul's case if the owner of the corpywritten work wants to file suit. I doubt wikipedia and whatever group did the study Paul stole from really are going to bother, so that ends that. I find it hilarious however that Paul is trying to play the victim. Whatever happened to taking responsibility, and not just blaming the media and the ones who found out what you did?
 
DVSentinel said:
You cannot blame me if others cannot read that I am not a conservative. It is not my intention to influence anything pro or con towards conservatives, unless of course, I specifically bring them up. The misunderstanding of others should not reflect upon you or yours.
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OK, OK- I guess I put the wrong spin on that Republic of Texasbull**** under your avatar.
Signing on with that crowd takes you well enough away from the ranks of Conservatives,
and into the ranks of the lunatic fringe.
 
USViking said:
OK, OK- I guess I put the wrong spin on that Republic of Texasbull**** under your avatar.
Signing on with that crowd takes you well enough away from the ranks of Conservatives,
and into the ranks of the lunatic fringe.
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Nope, not a liberal or any other kind of leftist either.
 
DVSentinel said:
Nope, not a liberal or any other kind of leftist either.
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There is a left wing fringe, although mainstream liberalism is not part of it. Not to anyone except the right wing fringe, that is.

Our doctrinaire Marxist pal Hatuey is a good example of a left-wing fringe member. Come to think of it our Mr. DVSentinel might be considered a right-wing equivalent of Mr. Hatuey. I bet those two could get into a real pissing contest!
 
specklebang said:
While I'm DEFINITELY not a Rand Paul fan, this is much ado about nothing. So what? Borrowing a few sentences? This isn't a novel for sale, it's a speech or whatever.
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It was far more than "borrowing a few sentences". He "borrowed (or, in reality STOLE) complete works" and presented them as his own.

If Americans had any decency, shaming would be appropriate and sufficient. Unfortunately, we are losing our decency (or sensitivity for right and wrong), as many see little wrong with this.... as evidence per above. As someone else pointed out, this will get you expelled from most schools, including ALL of our military academies. They think its a big deal.
 
aberrant85 said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/06/u...l-announces-office-restructuring.html?hp&_r=0



I can't decide if this is silly or pathetic, but at the very least it's embarrassing for a grown-ass man. In school plagiarism can be grounds for expulsion. What should it be for real adults in the real world?
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It was footnoted at the back of the book. So, its not really plagiarism.
Should have been indented or in quotations, but its not Rand Pauls fault as much as his writer and the printer.
And no, Iam not a Rand Paul or Ron Paul supporter.
 
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