View Poll Results: What should be fixed first?

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  • Cost

    35 70.00%
  • Medical Malpractice

    6 12.00%
  • Medicare Fraud

    7 14.00%
  • Coverage Denial

    9 18.00%
  • Claim Denial

    5 10.00%
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Thread: What should be the first step to fixing healthcare in the US?

  1. #101
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    Re: What should be the first step to fixing healthcare in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    Knee replacement at one hospital vs a next is sometimes different by 50000? how is this possible?
    Oh, that's easy to explain: prices are established not by market interaction between the provider and the consumer, but via bargaining with insurance companies and government administrators. You have to make some things cheaper, some things more expensive, and not in a manner that makes any logical sense to an outsider observer.

    And I don't mean just insurance of the patients: if the surgeons doing hip replacement at the hospital A have a great malpractice insurance, and surgeons at the hospital B a lousy one, it likely will be compensated by a much higher price of the procedure at B.

  2. #102
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    Re: What should be the first step to fixing healthcare in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Man View Post
    That way those, like you, who trust the FDA to can buy only FDA approved medicine. Those who trust others can have medicine approved by others.
    "Approved"? So, you are talking about medicines approved by other regulatory agencies? That wasn't my impression.


    Quote Originally Posted by Green Man View Post
    That way, everybody should be happy.
    Because the unhappy ones will disappear via natural selection, after buying drugs from quacks?

  3. #103
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    AGENT J's Avatar
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    Re: What should be the first step to fixing healthcare in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Oh, that's easy to explain: prices are established not by market interaction between the provider and the consumer, but via bargaining with insurance companies and government administrators. You have to make some things cheaper, some things more expensive, and not in a manner that makes any logical sense to an outsider observer.

    And I don't mean just insurance of the patients: if the surgeons doing hip replacement at the hospital A have a great malpractice insurance, and surgeons at the hospital B a lousy one, it likely will be compensated by a much higher price of the procedure at B.
    and thats the part that needs regulated, there is no excuse for inconsistency like that and the system cant be fixed unless theres better consistency.
    If its the mal practice insurance difference then THAT should be evident on the bill, not hidden. That should be under something called facility liability or admin costs etc. Not make the knee price vary by 500% and the local anesthetic vary by 300% etc etc etc

    Its no wonder its an industry so hard to try and fix when everything is a shell game and so hidden.

    When these inconsistencies exist for hospitals on the same block, for the same patient, under the same insurance thats the biggest break down in the system and most things cant be solidly studied or fixed unti that is.

    its horrendous
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  4. #104
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    Re: What should be the first step to fixing healthcare in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    "Approved"? So, you are talking about medicines approved by other regulatory agencies? That wasn't my impression.
    Other agencies that test and certify medicines, sure.

    Because the unhappy ones will disappear via natural selection, after buying drugs from quacks?
    Just like the ones who die by being denied life saving drugs by the FDA will disappear.

  5. #105
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    Re: What should be the first step to fixing healthcare in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    of course they dont care but this is the part that needs regulated and the rest will fall in line, its one of the areas where other countries are ahead of us.

    I have no problem with Agent J knees costing 1500 and captain courtesy knees costing 10000 especial if my knee is rated for 10 years and his is rated for 25 THATS how business works.

    But my knee should never be available at one hospital at 1800 and at another hospital literally in walking distance 15000. Thats complete bull**** and what needs looked at and fixed.

    business is business but simply ass raping the customer (PATIENT) especially in an industry where lives are on the line is just wrong and a serious problem.
    Perhaps the facility that charges the higher (inflated?) knee replacement price is also mandated to give away free care to ER patients or accepts Medicare/Medicaid patients for their extremely discounted reimbursement rates while the other does not. It is very hard to get an apples to apples comparison for different care facilities. The same lab test (e.g. INR test) can be had at rates varying by 400%, but if your "co-pay" is the same at each facility then you likely do not care at all.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #106
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    Re: What should be the first step to fixing healthcare in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    and thats the part that needs regulated, there is no excuse for inconsistency like that and the system cant be fixed unless theres better consistency.
    Regulatory fixes can do only that much in a system so complex and constantly changing. The only lasting solution is to return actual customer (patient) to the role of immediate buyer, individual or cooperative. With money in her pocket, any patient should be able to really shop the market of medical goods and services. When this becomes (once again) reality, prices will get in line and start dropping, just like they kept doing all this time in the tiny corners where real retail market had survived (Lasik or elective surgery, e.g.)

    Insurance companies should butt out and return to their natural role of providing policies for the cases of accidents or sudden serious illness. Government should limit itself to subsidies for the poor (or for everyone, as a phase, as I say in #84).
    Last edited by Cyrylek; 11-07-13 at 11:12 AM.

  7. #107
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    Re: What should be the first step to fixing healthcare in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Perhaps the facility that charges the higher (inflated?) knee replacement price is also mandated to give away free care to ER patients or accepts Medicare/Medicaid patients for their extremely discounted reimbursement rates while the other does not. It is very hard to get an apples to apples comparison for different care facilities. The same lab test (e.g. INR test) can be had at rates varying by 400%, but if your "co-pay" is the same at each facility then you likely do not care at all.
    doesnt really matter what the cause is regulate it, until then the system will never work and you said actually what the problem is, if you cant make apples to apples compassion how does one ever address the problems on a fiscal level?

    if i owned 13 car factories and they all made the same cars using the same tools but had 13 extremely different budgets, insurances, prices for services etc etc how do I ever come up with a way to control costs that works? I cant until they all operate with in at least a close range of eachother.

    If some of them give free oil changes one sunday a month then they all do it or none of them do it or they all do it once every 3 months.
    If some of my factories are mandated to use Pirelli tires then they all use them

    etc etc

    without this control and forcing an apples to apples situation or at least a granny apple to red delicious apple im ****ed (or at least my customers are) and so is any guess at my costs and bottom line.
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  8. #108
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    Re: What should be the first step to fixing healthcare in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Man View Post
    Other agencies that test and certify medicines, sure.
    I wrote above that Americans should be given easier access to medicines approved in Europe, Australia and other countries with respectable regulatory bodies. That's what you mean?

  9. #109
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    Re: What should be the first step to fixing healthcare in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    I wrote above that Americans should be given easier access to medicines approved in Europe, Australia and other countries with respectable regulatory bodies. That's what you mean?
    That's not what I meant, but that would be great too. I meant agencies along the lines of Underwriters Labs that would test and approve medicines.

  10. #110
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    Re: What should be the first step to fixing healthcare in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Regulatory fixes can do only that much in a system so complex and constantly changing. The only lasting solution is to return actual customer (patient) to the role of immediate buyer, individual or cooperative. With money in her pocket, any patient should be able to really shop the market of medical goods and services. When this becomes (once again) reality, prices will get in line and start dropping, just like kept doing all this time in the tiny corners where real retail market had survived (Lasik or elective surgery, e.g.)

    Insurance companies should butt out and return to their natural role of providing policies for the cases of accidents or sudden serious illness. Government should limit itself to subsidies for the poor (or for everyone, as a phase, as I say in #84).
    but in my opinion its complexity shrinks majorly with regulation, other countries already do this to a degree it cant be to hard for us to figure it out.

    but of course im also for the patient having the power and options too but with out regulations in a market where you must pay or die or lose a leg, they only have so much power

    your example of elective is just that, ELECTIVE so the consumer/patient power is dramatically increased vs me needing a new or artificial hurt by next week or cancer meds, or knee surgery so i can walk, or my gall bladder removed so i can eat and sleep right etc

    I agree i just dont think its so cut and paste for THIS market like others
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