View Poll Results: Which one is the most dishonest active politician?

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  • President Obama

    38 44.71%
  • Joe Biden

    0 0%
  • John Boehner

    7 8.24%
  • Harry Reid

    7 8.24%
  • Nancy Peloisi

    2 2.35%
  • Mitch McConnell

    2 2.35%
  • Governor Christie

    1 1.18%
  • Rand Paul

    2 2.35%
  • Ted Cruz

    12 14.12%
  • OTHER

    14 16.47%
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Thread: Which one is the most dishonest active Politician?

  1. #91
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    Re: Which one is the most dishonest active Politician?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Right. Because when history decided on what made Hitler uniquely evil, it was his national social health insurance system (which, by the way, isn't even Hitler's. It was started under Otto Von Bismarck in 1883). And then allllll the way at the bottom of the list there's something about invading Poland, concentration camps and blah blah blah whatever. Nope, forget that, it's the health insurance system.
    Obama sucks, you know it, I know it, everyone knows it. what was your point again?

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    Re: Which one is the most dishonest active Politician?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    And you would only do that if you wanted to be accurate.

    There is no denying that Fascism and its its step child, Nazism, came out of the left. Mussolini's father was a revolutionary socialist, blah blah blah... but then, one assumes that since you made that spike attempt, that you may have known about some of all of this, eh?
    Yes, and children always do as their fathers do Mussolini denounced socialism and started something that is close to the opposite of socialism, fascism. Do not get me wrong, fascist and communist dictators are about the same thing when it comes to the misdeeds they do but the do it out of 2 differing ideologies. Fascism is the ideology of right wing policies jumbled together with some left wing political elements in order to form a totalitarian, ultra-nationalist, anti-democratic, highly militaristic order which revels in anti revolutionary tactics like war, inequality, superiority principle of certain individuals, violence and worship of the state. Fascist are known as the opposite end of the spectrum towards communism.

    Hitler might have used populist policies that communists often also use as a lure for the poor of Germany to rally around him, his policies have been shown to be the opposite of communism.

    But as said, revisionist right wing individuals are not too happy with the filth at their end of the political spectrum and try to revise it so that it is the fault of the leftists (like they do with just about everything else in the universe that is not approved by them) instead of realizing that this filth of fascism and nazi might be right wing but that it has nothing to do with right wing policies as a whole. Own your black sheep (the nazi's and fascist) just like we of the left have to own our black sheep (the commies and their decades of terror and death) and be happy that we are no longer like that.

    Someone from the right should feel sad that one time there was an extreme right but also be aware that it has nothing to do with a democratic right wing person of the here and now. You have no responsibility for the dark history that fascists and nazi perpetrated in the name of right wing ideology, it has nothing to do with right wing people of today. Learn from the mistakes of the past and move forward into a brighter future for right wing and conservative politics. And the same goes for left wing people, we should feel sad that there once was communism like Stalin and Mao etc. perpetrated but also be aware that it has nothing to do with democratic left wing person of the here and now. We have no responsibility for the dark history that communists perpetrated in the name of left wing ideology, it has nothing to do with left wing people of today. Learn from the mistakes of the past and move forward into a brighter future in the name of left wing and progressive politics.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

  3. #93
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    Re: Which one is the most dishonest active Politician?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Unless all the dictionaries agree. At which point you might be on the wrong side of the argument.
    the re-writing of the Nazis as a right wing movement began post-WWII kickoff, and is still pretty well distributed throughout common understanding. However, only a couple of your cited definitions said that it was right wing - again, you are confusing "nationalism" with "conservatism", which is not historically accurate.

    Once each ideology goes to their extreme they begin to resemble each other a lot more than they differ. Right wing ideology taken to its extreme becomes statist and nationalist as those become means of control. Left wing ideology when taken to its extreme is a bit different in the details but the nationalism and statism (and totalitarianism) are all still there.
    I thought you just said that liberalism taken to its extremes was communism? Communism included the express rejection of nationalism, arguing that the differences between nations were artificial clashes designed to allow the owning classes of each country to pit the proletariat against each other, to keep them from uniting.

    Again, ideological movements cannot usually be placed in that kind of linear fashion. As an example, the extreme version of classic liberalism - which today we would call libertarianism - does not include a totalitarian (which, it is worth noting, was a deliberate fascist intellectual construct) state.

    Also I hope you'll pardon when I flinch at the use of the word "overlap," an approach that frequently tries to tie two unrelated concepts together by treating the irrelevant similarities as the important ones, an example being: Obama drinks coffee, Hitler drank coffee, ergo Obama emulates Hitler.
    That's why it's caveated with "ideological". An example being: liberals generally look down on capital gains as "unearned income" and seek to confiscate it (and some seek to confiscate it all), national socialists generally looked down on capital gains as "unearned income" and sought to confiscate it (and some sought to confiscate it all), making this a position of ideological overlap between those two.

  4. #94
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    Re: Which one is the most dishonest active Politician?

    accidental repeat post.

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    Re: Which one is the most dishonest active Politician?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    And I stand by mine, a much more accurate portrayal of the overall picture of what was/is going on. GW was pretty much successful in his military efforts, so was BJ, for the most part [ maybe a bit questionable on Haiti, certainly Somalia ]... not so much for the O... and again, just not that much difference in actual causalities, especially in light of accomplishment vs nothing much at all accomplished... and certainly not as much as you may want to try to make of it.
    The website I used is being called an "authoritative" record of MNF casualties in Iraq, and it's data is used by, among others, the BBC, Associated Press, Voice of America, NY times and the Washington Post.

    The website gets it's data from: news reports and press releases from the U.S. Department of Defense, CENTCOM, the MNF, and the British Ministry of Defence.

    Sorry but I have zero reason to doubt the data from Icasualties.

    Face the facts, under George W. Bush a lot more soldiers died than under Obama and at a higher rate. But that is not his fault, it is to be expected if you invade and occupy a country of over 30 million people of which about 30 percent would love to kill you.

    This is not a blame game but a statistics issue. I am not blaming George W. Bush personally for all these deaths but they did happen under his presidency. I am also not blaming Obama for the deaths under his presidency because that too is something that happens when you are waging a war on terror like Obama is.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

  6. #96
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    Re: Which one is the most dishonest active Politician?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    Adolf Hitler is what we have in Obama now. He is targeting the middle class instead of a race of people but none the less targeting.

    The 12-Year War: 73% of U.S. Casualties in Afghanistan on Obama's Watch
    The 12-Year War: 73% of U.S. Casualties in Afghanistan on Obama's Watch | CNS News

    ■Obama has ordered seven times more drone strikes than Bush in the covert conflicts in Pakistan and Yemen, according to independent estimates.
    Obama’s Numbers (Quarterly Update)
    And as the story said, the bigger number under Obama is all in Afghanistan and fact is that the majority of US soldiers died in Iraq and not Afghanistan.

    You were lying by omission of a very important "limiting fact" namely that your claim only is about Afghanistan. If you had said more soldiers died under Obama in Afghanistan than under Bush I would have agreed with you on that. I would still have disagreed with you on what these numbers meant (seeing that more troops died in Iraq than in Afghanistan) and why more soldiers died in Afghanistan under Obama than Bush. I would have pointed to the surge that was needed because the eye had been taken off the ball (the true target of what the invasion should have been about, destroying the terrorists in Afghanistan) and the taliban was becoming stronger in Afghanistan again.

    Yes, Obama has used more drone strikes compared to Bush. Bush however used more bombs from planes, cruise missiles and regular war tools to fight during his time as president. Obama is using drones to attack the people who want to destroy the United States and all the people that live there. Be happy he is using drones to go after the real enemies of the United States, IMHO.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Which one is the most dishonest active Politician?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    Obama sucks, you know it, I know it, everyone knows it. what was your point again?
    You are absolutely within your right to think Obama sucks and to a point I will agree with you, he will not go into the history books as a great president but guess what, neither will his predecessor go into those history books as a great president. Some might actually call him an even worse president than Obama (I would be one of them) but that does not mean that I think Obama is that great a president.

    It all comes down however in this poll is whether Obama is the most dishonest active politician and that is not the case IMHO, there are people way worse (like Bachmann) who qualify for that title.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    Re: Which one is the most dishonest active Politician?

    Which one is the most dishonest active Politician?

    Ya know I see a reality style TV show coming up!

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    Re: Which one is the most dishonest active Politician?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Which one is the most dishonest active Politician?

    Ya know I see a reality style TV show coming up!
    Yes, it is going to be called the crook of Washington. The styling is going to be like the voice. The judges are Karl Rove, J. Gordon Liddy, Oliver North, Gary Hart and John Edwards. The presenter will be Arnold Schwarzenegger.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

  10. #100
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    Re: Which one is the most dishonest active Politician?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    And you would only do that if you wanted to be accurate.

    There is no denying that Fascism and its its step child, Nazism, came out of the left. Mussolini's father was a revolutionary socialist, blah blah blah... but then, one assumes that since you made that spike attempt, that you may have known about some of all of this, eh?
    You might want to read some original works by Mussolini. He was the "father" of modern fascism, and he stated that fascism is completely opposed to socialism and liberalism. Apparently YOU didn't know this particular fact. Here are some quotes from The Doctrine of Fascism by Benito Mussolini:

    "Fascism is therefore opposed to Socialism"
    "Fascism is definitely and absolutely opposed to the doctrines of liberalism, both in the political and economic sphere."
    "The Fascist negation of socialism, democracy, liberalism"

    Mussolini* - THE DOCTRINE OF FASCISM

    I always enjoy watching right wingers attempt to paint fascism as a left wing ideology... and have that erroneous belief blown apart by the guy who developed the ideology in the 20th Century.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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