View Poll Results: If you were guaranteed a $25,000 income would you quit your job and stay unemployed?

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  • Yes

    17 13.71%
  • No

    90 72.58%
  • I don't have a job

    13 10.48%
  • I don't know

    4 3.23%
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Thread: Would you quit your job?

  1. #231
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    Re: Would you quit your job?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Do you seriously believe that those getting SS, UI or welfare (in all of its many forms) are not doing that now?
    And this has what to do with the OP or my post?
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  2. #232
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    Re: Would you quit your job?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Around here is more expensive than Los Angeles, by a significant margin? Doubtful.
    I live here. I'm pretty sure I'm aware of the costs.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #233
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    Re: Would you quit your job?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Then I don't need to answer your inquiries as you already know the answer. Why do you ask questions you already know the answer to? Just to waste time or for something to pick at? I'm guessing the later.
    Just looking for confirmation and honesty, Henrin. Two things that are often in short supply. And since you feel you have no need to answer my inquiries, I suppose we are done here.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #234
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    Re: Would you quit your job?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Nope. You work you violate the conditions of the OP.
    Wrong. You have to remain unemployed. That is not the same as "performs zero labor". People who occasionally do handy-man jobs, mow their neighbors lawn, do a day labor position on a roof for a couple of days, etc, remain "unemployed" as it pertains to the receipt of government benefits, which this $25,000 would be.

    And I would argue that it isn't, but I think we SHOULD ask him and settle this once an for all. It would resolve what he meant by his OP: was it open ended as you seem to believe, or closed as I do?
    Indeed - let's ask.

    No. Their difference is that people would make the decision based on their CURRENT or PAST situation, not on what would/could happen in the future. For example, if they ALREADY cohabited, that could play into their decision, as I said. I said nothing of future changes which has nothing to do with the OP.
    if I'm a single young male, then my current situation is that I could easily shack up with my girlfriend and we could live off of 50K. There is no qualifier ever presented whatsoever that would justify your argument here - nothing is mentioned ever about how people would go about using their $25,000, or arranging their lives in order to make that income work better for them.

    I would submit that these would be introverts.
    1. I realize I'm arguing on your turf here, but
    2. Introverts would watch others argue over that.

    Take a look at the times we've done the Briggs-Meyers/etc threads ; do we match the general populace?

    Political knowledge is really not an issue in this question. It is more philosophical than political.
    The two intertwine - the more politically aware you are, the more you focus on political value sets and arguments. The more you do so, the more likely you are to be guided by them. The populace of those who explicitly daily make the argument against government handouts are going to be less likely than general pop to take them, even if they rate them (many still will, but the portion will be fewer), just as those who defend such programs will be more likely to feel justified in accessing them when they can.

    Here's the problem with your analysis. Those who voted "yes" were not taking a loss of living standards into consideration or didn't believe it would affect their living standards. So, unless you believe it would, your analysis doesn't apply.
    You are impugning a poor decision-making process onto them that you have no way of verifying or even demonstrating. You are literally just making something up and declaring it to have occurred.

  5. #235
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    Re: Would you quit your job?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Any change alters the impact of employment vs. $25,000.
    Which is irrelevant to the actual question except inasmuch as it allows people to shift from "no" to "yes" or back again.

    If I move from a mansion with a $6,000/month mortgage to a one-bedroom apartment rental that's $800/month, I've altered the parameters and rendered the OP question meaningless.
    On the contrary, nothing about the parameters proposed by the question have changed.

    No, you have added extra variables to the OP effectively altering it
    On the contrary, I have added no new requirements, no new parameters.

  6. #236
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    Re: Would you quit your job?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Wrong. You have to remain unemployed. That is not the same as "performs zero labor". People who occasionally do handy-man jobs, mow their neighbors lawn, do a day labor position on a roof for a couple of days, etc, remain "unemployed" as it pertains to the receipt of government benefits, which this $25,000 would be.
    Government benefits are irrelevant to the point of employment. If you work, you are employed.

    Indeed - let's ask.
    He doesn't seem to have revisited the thread.

    if I'm a single young male, then my current situation is that I could easily shack up with my girlfriend and we could live off of 50K. There is no qualifier ever presented whatsoever that would justify your argument here - nothing is mentioned ever about how people would go about using their $25,000, or arranging their lives in order to make that income work better for them.
    Without boundaries surrounding the scenario, the OP is completely meaningless. Of COURSE there are qualifiers. Without qualifiers, answering the question would be like dividing by zero. In order to get a reasonable response, parameters must be set.

    1. I realize I'm arguing on your turf here, but
    2. Introverts would watch others argue over that.
    No, an introvert is not necessarily an observer. Internet message boards are boons for introverts. Introverts are less likely to enjoy socializing, face-to-face.

    Take a look at the times we've done the Briggs-Meyers/etc threads ; do we match the general populace?
    I've actually never taken a look at them. I am currently pursing training in advanced Myers-Briggs assessments.

    The two intertwine - the more politically aware you are, the more you focus on political value sets and arguments. The more you do so, the more likely you are to be guided by them. The populace of those who explicitly daily make the argument against government handouts are going to be less likely than general pop to take them, even if they rate them (many still will, but the portion will be fewer), just as those who defend such programs will be more likely to feel justified in accessing them when they can.
    Actually, if you take a look at the poll numbers... from an ideological standpoint, we see the exact opposite of what you are saying. I don't see anyone on the ideological left voting "yes". Yet, I see a lot of libertarians voting "yes"... or challenging the "no's". Just goes to my theory that some have tried to turn this into some sort of "trap" thread.

    You are impugning a poor decision-making process onto them that you have no way of verifying or even demonstrating. You are literally just making something up and declaring it to have occurred.
    Well, there are two possibilities. Either I am right... or I am right about the "trap" based on the ideology of those who voted "yes" when one looks at what you said about the ideologies of how people would vote. Either way, I'm right.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #237
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    Re: Would you quit your job?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Which is irrelevant to the actual question except inasmuch as it allows people to shift from "no" to "yes" or back again.
    Which negates the point of the OP, rendering it equivalent to dividing my zero.

    On the contrary, nothing about the parameters proposed by the question have changed.
    Absolutely has. The OP is either or. Change the parameters and you render it pointless.

    On the contrary, I have added no new requirements, no new parameters.
    Of course you have.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #238
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    Re: Would you quit your job?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Which negates the point of the OP,
    What? no it doesn't. People have the ability to make rational decisions based on rational assumptions about the future - this isn't a static scoring here.

    Absolutely has. The OP is either or. Change the parameters and you render it pointless.
    There is no "either or" language presented in the OP. The only requirements presented are A) quit your job and B) remain unemployed to C) get $25K. Those are the only requirements.


    Interesting left/right breakdown here. Are all things allowed except those forbidden by the controlling Authority, or are all things forbidden except those explicitly allowed by the controlling Authority?

    Of course you have.
    On the contrary, I have not. In one case I better defined the language, you pointed it out, and so I stopped but continued to make the case that it was implicit and we agreed to ask the OP.

  9. #239
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    Re: Would you quit your job?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    What? no it doesn't. People have the ability to make rational decisions based on rational assumptions about the future - this isn't a static scoring here.
    Future consideration are not part of the OP. YOU and others have created that addition.

    There is no "either or" language presented in the OP. The only requirements presented are A) quit your job and B) remain unemployed to C) get $25K. Those are the only requirements.
    Those are THE requirements. When you add anything, you alter the parameters. Since alterations were not mentioned, there is no reason to do them.
    Interesting left/right breakdown here. Are all things allowed except those forbidden by the controlling Authority, or are all things forbidden except those explicitly allowed by the controlling Authority?
    That's one way to look at it. Or does one fit their answers inside the rules or does one fit the rules inside their answers?

    On the contrary, I have not. In one case I better defined the language, you pointed it out, and so I stopped but continued to make the case that it was implicit and we agreed to ask the OP.
    I also defined a better OP and we both DID agree to ask the OP. So, we can either continue to argue semantics, cease this silly bickering where neither of us will back down, or move on to a far more interesting point... the one you made in the left/right breakdown. Your choice. I'll be logging off soon, so I can do either of the three.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #240
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    Re: Would you quit your job?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Future consideration are not part of the OP. YOU and others have created that addition.
    The ability to consider the future is already endemic in the individual being questioned. There is no addition, as it is pre-existent.

    Those are THE requirements. When you add anything, you alter the parameters. Since alterations were not mentioned, there is no reason to do them.
    Since no parameters for any of those items were included, there is no alteration occurring. It's as if you were to argue that if one were to take this deal, they could not then dye their hair a different color.

    That's one way to look at it. Or does one fit their answers inside the rules or does one fit the rules inside their answers?
    The dispute is over what the rules are. Is this a trade that, unlike any other in human society, forever imprisons all action? Or is it one that is (what it obviously is) an addition/modification/proposal in the context of a welfare state, which does not unless explicitly drawn out.

    I also defined a better OP and we both DID agree to ask the OP. So, we can either continue to argue semantics, cease this silly bickering where neither of us will back down, or move on to a far more interesting point... the one you made in the left/right breakdown. Your choice. I'll be logging off soon, so I can do either of the three.
    Yeah. 0230 is too late to be arguing about this stuff.

    The left/right breakdown I find interesting for two reasons:

    1. As described above, the assumption about the nature of freedom of action - is all action free that is not restricted, or is all action restricted that is not freed?

    2. There seems to be a need of some here on the left to deny people the ability to make rational decisions if those rational decisions then leave them taking advantage of the welfare state. Why can we not discuss how people interact with the welfare state honestly - that they do so based (most usually) on their own self-interest?

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