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Does it make more sense that people driving most, pay the most tax?

Does it make sense that people driving more miles pay more tax?

  • yes, usage tax is the most fair

    Votes: 7 25.9%
  • no, usage tax is not fair

    Votes: 14 51.9%
  • I could care less

    Votes: 3 11.1%
  • I may have to move closer to work if it passes

    Votes: 3 11.1%

  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .
Is it not?

The fairest form of road-use tax allows the least amount of micromanagement by political figures, or rather micromismanagement.

No, the question of what is fair is independent of the issue of political mismanagement.

Political mismanagement is a practical matter which might theoretically subtract enough value from what would otherwise be the fairest solution to a problem to make a less fair solution more desirable. Theoretically. Is there any reason to assume that road-use tax would lead to more political mismanagement than sales tax or some other form of generating revenue?
 
No, the question of what is fair is independent of the issue of political mismanagement.

Political mismanagement is a practical matter which might theoretically subtract enough value from what would otherwise be the fairest solution to a problem to make a less fair solution more desirable. Theoretically. Is there any reason to assume that road-use tax would lead to more political mismanagement than sales tax or some other form of generating revenue?
Unless the road-use tax is collected entirely by robots and no humans are allowed any form of control over it, beyond the initial programming telling the robots to "collect X amount of tax per vehicle (perhaps with a "type" thrown in)......yes.

Or rather, no....The same amount of risk.

Which is why I dislike multiple types of taxes - they just allow more room for mismanagement. A few larger taxes rather than hundreds of smaller ones would be better.
 
Unless the road-use tax is collected entirely by robots and no humans are allowed any form of control over it, beyond the initial programming telling the robots to "collect X amount of tax per vehicle (perhaps with a "type" thrown in)......yes.

Or rather, no....The same amount of risk.
This is not political mismanagement. You do not specify exactly what it is, in fact. I guess you are referring to ineffective work habits of government employees. Tax collection is an area where government employees seem to be performing reasonably effectively, and no, I do not consider the recent brouhaha over some teabaggers getting singled out for extra attention to be a case of inefficiency.



Which is why I dislike multiple types of taxes - they just allow more room for mismanagement. A few larger taxes rather than hundreds of smaller ones would be better.
I am all for maximum simplification, and I do not not sold on automobile usage tax.
 
This is not political mismanagement. You do not specify exactly what it is, in fact. I guess you are referring to ineffective work habits of government employees. Tax collection is an area where government employees seem to be performing reasonably effectively, and no, I do not consider the recent brouhaha over some teabaggers getting singled out for extra attention to be a case of inefficiency.
I was actually thinking more along the lines of various and sundry exemptions and the like, added after the fact.

The collection part was a bit off course.
 
screw the black box, just tax gas, not mileage. Black boxes are an intrusion into people lives, the government does not DESERVE or RESERVE the right to track my driving.
 
Yes, let's make life even more complicated and tiresome. Great idea.
 
I think that they do. I just got done going on a trip in Ohio to Kentucky and was held up with numerous road projects.

And I found this interesting article: Overweight trucks damage infrastructure. (USA Today)

Over weight and over dimensional was my bread and butter for a long while. The interstate system is NOT designed for 40tons. Its designed for transporting tanks which routinely weigh out in combat load over 70tons. That doesn't include the transport. The USA article you provided is quite misleading and to be blunt poor journalism. They didn't do their homework. Permits for overweight are based on the capacity of the road to handle a given weight in a given amount of space. Now those 70ton tanks are hauled by transports that distribute the weight over a wide and long area. the trailer has 7 axels with eight tires an axel. Each tire is capable of supporting 1.5 tons, so the total amount able to be hauled by that unit is 84 tons.

Most states go by federal limits though there are a few that exceed the limits. Typical permitted weights allowed are 20,000 lbs an axel providing a minimum tire width is met to distribute the weight and the space between groups of axels are met. So a single axle would be permitted at 20,000 tandems at 40,000 and tridems at 60,000.
Heavier combinations than 80,000lbs is generally by trip permit and various states have widely differing rates for the permits. California ironically enough is on the inexpensive end of the spectrum while Mississippi is on the confiscatory end. Most Western states because of the way they design their highways register heavier truck combinations as a matter of course because a the highways are designed to handle the heavy weight, the heavier registration brings more revenue to the state, and there are fewer trucks required to move the same tonnage. That's why you only see longer combinations out west.

I don't know if you know or not but commercial vehicles are regularly weighed and inspected. There are weigh stations and dot trucks with scales. A commercial vehicle cannot just run with whatever weight is put on, they must comply with the rules or they will be shut down till they do. Not to mention fined heavily. Besides running heavy burns more fuel which makes transporting that load less economical. Freight rates are generally negotiated by contract for mileage though drayage operations will contract by weight generally.

I am afraid if you have a highway system you are always going to have construction of some sort and some states deal with it better than others. Sorry. As far a money goes a very large percentage of the highway fund is NOT spent on roads or bridges in the network, but spent on light rail bike paths, and my personal favorite beautification projects.
These roads would be paid for and then some if the money was spent as allocated. This one of my pet peeves. I shouldnt be having to buy suspension parts, repairing and aligning my equipment periodically if the roads where in good shape. These roads are costing me on top of the taxes I already pay.

As I stated earlier a lot of the roads that are built in California are built shoddily on purpose, because of cronyism. Most of the companies that get bids are very very well connected and get away with a lot of garbage you or I wouldn't be able to. In fact one of the companies out here that bids on projects is started owned an run by lawyers. I didn't know that lawyers were engineers or contractors. They make most of their money on projects by suing the state after the fact. We have one widening project in the bay area that has been going on for the last 20 years for basically a 10 mile stretch. If that don't tell you everything nothing will.

Anywho I hope you are enlightened by my explanation. I am a logistics company owner so this is what I do for a living. If you got more questions ask.
 
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There are parts of I70 where you will be ordered to chain up or lrave the freeway, during a storm warning without any actual snow on the ground.

I now carry snow cables for just such occasions.

I go by the rule I its bad enough to chain up its bad enough to pause my trip and wait the storm out.
 
A black box in your car? Some see a source of tax revenue

The devices would track every mile you drive —possibly including your location — and the government would use the data to draw up a tax bill.

WASHINGTON — As America's road planners struggle to find the cash to mend a crumbling highway system, many are beginning to see a solution in a little black box that fits neatly by the dashboard of your car.

The devices, which track every mile a motorist drives and transmit that information to bureaucrats, are at the center of a controversial attempt in Washington and state planning offices to overhaul the outdated system for funding America's major roads.

A black box in your car? Some see a source of tax revenue - latimes.com

Will they start charging based on vehicle weight too? Heavier vehicles do more damage to the road per mile than lighter ones. Research has indicated that a fully loaded tractor trailer does as much damage to a road as nearly 10,000 passenger cars. Will the rate for semis be 10,000 times what it is for other vehicles in order to be fair?
 
The interstate system is NOT designed for 40tons. Its designed for transporting tanks which routinely weigh out in combat load over 70tons. That doesn't include the transport.
I couldn't find any info concerning this so I'll take you word for it. ;)
 
Will they start charging based on vehicle weight too? Heavier vehicles do more damage to the road per mile than lighter ones. Research has indicated that a fully loaded tractor trailer does as much damage to a road as nearly 10,000 passenger cars. Will the rate for semis be 10,000 times what it is for other vehicles in order to be fair?

Some states base the license fee on vehicle weight.
 
I couldn't find any info concerning this so I'll take you word for it. ;)

That's the reason the interstate system exists its a defense department project that happens to have very good civilian benies. You can thank Eisenhower for so foresight.
 
Will they start charging based on vehicle weight too? Heavier vehicles do more damage to the road per mile than lighter ones. Research has indicated that a fully loaded tractor trailer does as much damage to a road as nearly 10,000 passenger cars. Will the rate for semis be 10,000 times what it is for other vehicles in order to be fair?
Frankly, car drivers would pay that anyways, at least in part - no way in hell will the trucking companies eat that cost, they'll add it to the shipping fees they charge, which will in turn cause stores to raise prices.

And that person driving to the mall to buy stuff will end up paying for both the truck (fraction of it, anyway) and their car.
 
Frankly, car drivers would pay that anyways, at least in part - no way in hell will the trucking companies eat that cost, they'll add it to the shipping fees they charge, which will in turn cause stores to raise prices.

And that person driving to the mall to buy stuff will end up paying for both the truck (fraction of it, anyway) and their car.

At first, yeah, that would probably happen. Over time things would start being shipped more by rail again, since it would be considerably cheaper. Then we'd have less semi trucks on the road, which would be fantastic.
 
I'm sure that once this gets implemented, they are going to realize that it isn't just the miles but the size of the vehicle driving those miles. Then they will come up with a system where there will be different tiers of meter so that big vehicles will be taxed more. Then truck drivers will figure it out that it will be cheaper for them to put their truck meter in their passenger car and their passenger car meter in their truck.
 
At first, yeah, that would probably happen. Over time things would start being shipped more by rail again, since it would be considerably cheaper. Then we'd have less semi trucks on the road, which would be fantastic.
I'm not so sure.

Semi-trucks (and other trucks) are far more flexible than trains - and would still be required for transporting goods from railways to their final destinations, especially if those destinations were not near a railway.
 
those whom drive more already pay more in taxes.... they use more fuel, and pay those taxes... they use more tires, and pay those taxes.

no reason on earth to put a lil black box in anyone's car.

if the transportation fund is bankrupt, then the fed is seriously mismanaging that money.

Absolutely correct. Much of gasoline and diesel prices now is added tax. Heavy users are already paying an additional fee. However, it does sound like a committee solution to a problem. Remember when the' committee set out to design a horse and produced a camel.' That's rhetorical.
 
THE FUEL TAX ALREADY SERVES THAT PURPOSE. The more you drive, the more fuel you consume, and the more tax you pay. Furthermore, larger, heavier vehicles--those that do the most wear and tear on the roads--consume more fuel and pay more tax than the lighter ones that do little or no impact.

The use of tracking devices to monitor driving is a horrible invasion of privacy and something government should NEVER do.

Conclusion: The current fuel tax is fairer than any scheme idiot politicians can dream up. Don't mess with it.
 
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