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Does it make more sense that people driving most, pay the most tax?

Does it make sense that people driving more miles pay more tax?

  • yes, usage tax is the most fair

    Votes: 7 25.9%
  • no, usage tax is not fair

    Votes: 14 51.9%
  • I could care less

    Votes: 3 11.1%
  • I may have to move closer to work if it passes

    Votes: 3 11.1%

  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .
Civilized life has been going great way before 1910.






None whatsoever. I'm trying to save jobs by stopping the conservative agenda of having tax payers pay for black boxes, and the taxes that go with them, so tax payers can use their money to buy goods and services and keep the economy going. Let the trucking firms pay for the roads if they tear them up--which they do IMO.

You seem to not know that Commercial trucks PAY for the roads and then some. That's ok most don't. Let me enlighten you. I own a trucking outfit so I know a thing or two about the situation.

This is a cut and paste from another thread on the subject.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-st...box-your-car-some-see-source-tax-revenue.html

Most people don't know how roads are built or how they are funded. I have experience in both. Out here in California they are lowball bid generally and contractors out here have pull with the powers that be in Caltrans and elsewhere, so they can get away usually with defective pours that aren't up to snuff. They also then sue the state later for more money and various contractual breaches. Its a racket for sure. So anyway, what happens is part of the highways concrete deteriorates abnormally fast and starts a chain of accelerated deterioration. Which is further exacerbated by the constant cutting and patching of said new road.

There are lots of taxes for the roads you don't see and a lot of them are paid for by the prime users of the highway which is NOT you. Its commercial trucking that uses the road and pays significantly more taxes for it. There are excise taxes, fuel taxes, registration taxes, weight mile taxes, and fees for when a unit is over dimensional in some way.

Federally there is 24cents a gallon fuel tax. 150 gallons for a typical fill up once a day is $36 in tax NOT including other tax. A 12% excise tax on new vehicles and tires parts ect. A new standard 3 axle tractor costs about $120,000 before tax. So 12% excise tax would be about $14,440 that does NOT include OTHER taxes in that purchase. Tires every other year if you go new which I do are about 350 (cheap Chinese tires, mine are Michelins which run about 400) or so a tire multiplied by 18 is $6300 without tax. The tax is $756 There yearly road tax which must be paid which called a 2290 and that's $550 a year. That's actually cheap.

Then there is the State taxes. What you thought only the feds get a cut? Lets start with registration. About $2000+/- a year depending on the state. Then there is sales tax. Both on parts AND fuel. California has a fuel tax of 45cents a gallon. 150 gallon fill up everyday gets you $67.50 in tax. If I buy a truck or tires that's another 8.25% on top. If I haul a over dimensional or weight load its $16 per trip or $90 annually. That's VERY inexpensive compared to other states. Il is quite pricey mid three digits or so. Mississippi is the priciest they get confiscatory rates. Here's a dirty little secret for you. All federal highways are supposed to be able to handle military units with 70ton tanks on them. Another is that there is a max weight you can have per axel and tire, and the roads are designed to handle that weight and much more.

I could go on but I think the point has been made. These guys don't need MORE money they need to spend the money they got on what its supposed to go to in the first place.

I trust that sheds light on the actual situation. Believe me commercial trucking more than pays for the roads. The problem comes from the government using the funds not as intended. Our roads and bridges should be in excellent shape if they where actually allocated the funds they were supposed to have in the first place.
 
*snip for great brevity*
So, in a sense, those who drive alot (truckers) ALREADY pay more than those who don't drive as much (people commuting to work from a suburb or some such.).
 
I have 5 kids that play in a park close by, ...should I pay more for the upkeep of the park then those people who never use the park at all?

welcome to a nation of a billion taxes laws placed on usage and what behavior the citizen engages in.

welcome to the massive government that must administer all of those laws.
 
Yes, let's change the rules so city folks can get country folks to pay 100 times as much taxes for driving. Those damn rich farmers who refuse to pay more like they ought too!

Notice, those government people with 1,000,001 new ways to get more tax money anyway possible don't mention they will shift 95% of highway patrol and road repairs and building to rural areas along with this, do they?

The concept that you actually get something in direct return is a totally bizarre and unacceptable concept in government. That only exists in the private sector. What you get from government is just always reasons claiming why you should support them getting more money - usually claiming it will come from someone else that you get a benefit from if they do.
 
So, in a sense, those who drive alot (truckers) ALREADY pay more than those who don't drive as much (people commuting to work from a suburb or some such.).

Not in a sense, in actuality. We pay for the roads we use and then some. A lot of the funds in the highway trust fund are NOT used for highways, but light rail, bike paths, and beautification projects and a bunch of other horse****. Quite frankly we could have heated lighted and gold plated roads with all the money we send to the trust. You would think with bridges falling into rivers that someone would get the hint and actually use the funds as intended. But what do I know?:shrug:
 
Gas tax is usage tax. Really it is raising that tax - but with NO incentive for fuel efficiency - and getting people to believe others will pay more than you so it must be a great idea.

Sounds like government is tired of greenies driving higher efficiency cars costing them money and want to put an end to their saving much money by fuel efficient cars. They'd rather a person driving a car that gets 8 mpg pays no more tax than someone who gets 40 mpg. To eliminate any tax benefit in fuel efficient and green cars.

PLUS, they can't fuel-tax electric cars and they get them to pay more taxes.

Basically, this is some states that want to declare tax war on green vehicles.
 
Gas tax is usage tax. Really it is raising that tax - but with NO incentive for fuel efficiency - and getting people to believe others will pay more than you so it must be a great idea.

Sounds like government is tired of greenies driving higher efficiency cars costing them money and want to put an end to their saving much money by fuel efficient cars. They'd rather a person driving a car that gets 8 mpg pays no more tax than someone who gets 40 mpg. To eliminate any tax benefit in fuel efficient and green cars.

PLUS, they can't fuel-tax electric cars and they get them to pay more taxes.

Basically, this is some states that want to declare tax war on green vehicles.

If they want money they can get it via registration or a surcharge. But then again that cancels out the incentives they are giving for people to buy them in the first place. God these government people are stupid.
 
Gas tax is usage tax. Really it is raising that tax - but with NO incentive for fuel efficiency - and getting people to believe others will pay more than you so it must be a great idea.

Sounds like government is tired of greenies driving higher efficiency cars costing them money and want to put an end to their saving much money by fuel efficient cars. They'd rather a person driving a car that gets 8 mpg pays no more tax than someone who gets 40 mpg. To eliminate any tax benefit in fuel efficient and green cars.

PLUS, they can't fuel-tax electric cars and they get them to pay more taxes.

Basically, this is some states that want to declare tax war on green vehicles.

I am ok with it, it might make some people move closer to where they work, Atlanta is a ridiculous place to drive from 3:00 to 6:00 pm
 
A black box in your car? Some see a source of tax revenue

The devices would track every mile you drive —possibly including your location — and the government would use the data to draw up a tax bill.

WASHINGTON — As America's road planners struggle to find the cash to mend a crumbling highway system, many are beginning to see a solution in a little black box that fits neatly by the dashboard of your car.

The devices, which track every mile a motorist drives and transmit that information to bureaucrats, are at the center of a controversial attempt in Washington and state planning offices to overhaul the outdated system for funding America's major roads.

A black box in your car? Some see a source of tax revenue - latimes.com

They pay more through fuel tax.

I do not support "black boxes". Luckily, at this point, I have no intentions of ever buying a new vehicle again. I will buy older models from now on and refurbish them. This is primarily due to my believes about the way EPA handles emissions and what it costs us. No government will be putting a black box into my vehicles, for any purpose, that is not already there. Period.
 
if you have a cell phone or ON star it is already being done

Are you using the "If private businesses are doing it then its okay for the government to do it" excuse?

My cellphone is a cheap 5 year old Samsung cricket phone which stays at home and I know how to read a map and street signs.
 
To the issue of hybrids: most hyrbids use the engine only during highway usage, since the batteries cannot power the vehicle sufficiently for such sustained cruising. So hybrid owners are paying what is imo their fair share for their use of the highway. They go electric only in city driving where the battery can be recharged by regenerative braking. I would think that the reduced air pollution caused by their zero emission operation would offset their wear and tear on the roads. Plus, hybrids by their very nature must be light vehicles, so they aren't tearing up the roads nearly as fast as any other kind of car. Nor can they go especially fast (Tesla Motors notwithstanding, those are rare toys for rich people).

I guess that all this might be in preparation for a projected future when all electric vehicles are commonplace. I think a simpler solution would be to just charge a road use tax on electric charging at charging stations that would inevitably get put up around towns. Electric cars can be made to send a feedback signal to the meter to tell a smart meter when a car is being charged, so that your monthly bill can have appropriate taxes levied on it. Don't want the smart meter? OK. You'll pay a no smart meter surcharge every month.
 
For those who use fuel, we are already taxed by the federal, state, and in some cases added county and city taxes. These are reasonable fair. Those using electric vehicles still pay energy taxes. Still, not enough to maintain our roads should most vehicles go to this form of energy.

I can see adding a tax that is charged at the charging station, weather it be user owned or not. After all, in theory, the fuel tax is to maintain our roads. I just wish bicyclists were required to contribute for the bike lanes set aside for them.

Now I am all for raising the federal fuel tax on gasoline. It has not gone up with inflation for how many years? It's still $0.184 per gallon, right?
 
Plus if they add cellular to it, every month they send dozens of tickets to each person for any traffic violations too.
 
For those who use fuel, we are already taxed by the federal, state, and in some cases added county and city taxes. These are reasonable fair. Those using electric vehicles still pay energy taxes. Still, not enough to maintain our roads should most vehicles go to this form of energy.

I can see adding a tax that is charged at the charging station, weather it be user owned or not. After all, in theory, the fuel tax is to maintain our roads. I just wish bicyclists were required to contribute for the bike lanes set aside for them.

Now I am all for raising the federal fuel tax on gasoline. It has not gone up with inflation for how many years? It's still $0.184 per gallon, right?

When you combine both federal and state the average of tax paid per gallon is darn near 50 cents. But it is much higher in several states like California which currently is running close to 72 cents on the gallon probably due to their "designer" blends that they require. I find what people are paying in tax more than fair. I think some of the problem in maintaining our roads is due to the contractors that bid on these jobs and use sub-standard materials that don't hold up and end up having to be redone sooner than they should which means more guaranteed money/work for the contractors at a higher cost to the taxpayers.
 
. I just wish bicyclists were required to contribute for the bike lanes set aside for them.

Yeah, damn bicyclists! I'll tell what's worse. That's people walking outside and not paying a dime for sidewalks, cross walks and pedestrian crossing lanes. They should put toll meters on sidewalks and crosswalks like a toll bridge. A nickle a block and a dime to cross a street would be reasonable.

It is infuriating and grossly unfair that people are always searching for things they can do without paying taxes for it.

Doing anything that isn't taxed should be consider criminal conspiracy to evade taxes and those people do a little time in jail so they stop trying to get something in life for nothing. Maybe that way they'll come to appreciate everything the government does for them.
 
joko104 said:
Yeah, damn bicyclists! I'll tell what's worse. That's people walking outside and not paying a dime for sidewalks, cross walks and pedestrian crossing lanes. They should put toll meters on sidewalks and crosswalks like a toll bridge. A nickle a block and a dime to cross a street would be reasonable.
LOL...

Apples and oranges...

The road taxes pay for bicycle lanes. Property owners pay for sidewalks. Sidewalks don't deteriorate with traffic like roads do.
 
When you combine both federal and state the average of tax paid per gallon is darn near 50 cents. But it is much higher in several states like California which currently is running close to 72 cents on the gallon probably due to their "designer" blends that they require. I find what people are paying in tax more than fair. I think some of the problem in maintaining our roads is due to the contractors that bid on these jobs and use sub-standard materials that don't hold up and end up having to be redone sooner than they should which means more guaranteed money/work for the contractors at a higher cost to the taxpayers.

When anyone advocates higher federal taxes, they basically lie trying to convince that federal taxes are the only taxes people pay. Local, county and state taxes and endlessly more fees and fee increases have gone up tremendously. In may cities people no longer own their house, they rent in via property taxes. There is basically nothing anyone does or buys that doesn't have multiple layers of taxes on it.

For example, in Florida $16.57 of your monthly cell phone bill is the Florida cell phone excise tax.
There is a Florida excise tax of $6.50 per gallon of wine and gallon of liquor, and 47 cents per gallon of beer, and $1.34 on cigarettes.
Yesterday I bought a battery for a vehicle. Taxes and fees accounted for over 25% of the total I paid.

BUT those advocating Federal tax increases will try to convince people that Federal income taxes are the only taxes a person pays and then lament how little taxes people pay.

Per-mile driving tax of course most hits working people on the bottom end of the economic level.

This is another example of trying to reverse progressive taxation and make it so the middle and lower income classes increasingly pay a higher percentage of their income for taxes than the rich.

A person driving a less than 20 mpg costly SUV doesn't want road taxes based on fuel usage. Nor does a person driving a Bentley or full sized luxury car or limosine. Rather, they want a flat per-mile tax. If they got their way, property taxes also would equally be a "per house" tax - same tax on all houses - rather than based on property value. Rather than sales taxes on the value of the car purchase, to have it the same no matter the value of the car.
 
LOL...

Apples and oranges...

The road taxes pay for bicycle lanes. Property owners pay for sidewalks. Sidewalks don't deteriorate with traffic like roads do.


Generally property owners do not pay for sidewalks. They do not pay for crosswalk signs. They do not pay for the paint on crosswalks. They do not pay for pedestrian signs. They don't pay for sidewalks at government facilities. They ONLY pay for a sidewalk in front of their house - if they have one - no place else. But you logic of trying to exempt yourself, property owners pay for roads because they paid for their driveway.

Sidewalks deteriorate with nature and time, they don't last forever. But I get it! You don't ride a bicycle but do walk outside. So you want OTHER PEOPLE to pay YOUR WAY, while you want them to pay taxes for what they do AND what you do.

Typical calling always for taxing OTHER PEOPLE more hypocrisy.
 
I'd be quite happy, personally, if the taxes I pay for licensing my car, my driver's license, the gasoline taxes I pay, etc., all went directly to the maintenance of the roads and infrastructure I utilize on a daily basis and if that meant a more "user pay" formulae, I'd be all for it, with one proviso. Not a single cent of the taxes I pay for all these things car related will be used to fund public transit. Right now, all my taxes go into the government black hole and precious little of it comes back out in the form of roads, bridges, highway maintenance, etc. but a good chunk of it goes to fund public transit.

If it's going to be "user pay", then the people who ride the buses and subways and LRTs etc. better start ponying up the actual cost of their rides.
 
When anyone advocates higher federal taxes, they basically lie trying to convince that federal taxes are the only taxes people pay. Local, county and state taxes and endlessly more fees and fee increases have gone up tremendously. In may cities people no longer own their house, they rent in via property taxes. There is basically nothing anyone does or buys that doesn't have multiple layers of taxes on it.

For example, in Florida $16.57 of your monthly cell phone bill is the Florida cell phone excise tax.
There is a Florida excise tax of $6.50 per gallon of wine and gallon of liquor, and 47 cents per gallon of beer, and $1.34 on cigarettes.
Yesterday I bought a battery for a vehicle. Taxes and fees accounted for over 25% of the total I paid.

BUT those advocating Federal tax increases will try to convince people that Federal income taxes are the only taxes a person pays and then lament how little taxes people pay.

Per-mile driving tax of course most hits working people on the bottom end of the economic level.

This is another example of trying to reverse progressive taxation and make it so the middle and lower income classes increasingly pay a higher percentage of their income for taxes than the rich.

A person driving a less than 20 mpg costly SUV doesn't want road taxes based on fuel usage. Nor does a person driving a Bentley or full sized luxury car or limosine. Rather, they want a flat per-mile tax. If they got their way, property taxes also would equally be a "per house" tax - same tax on all houses - rather than based on property value. Rather than sales taxes on the value of the car purchase, to have it the same no matter the value of the car.

I just think raising taxes of any kind at this particular time is the wrong thing to do be doing. With an increase in federal tax on gasoline it would be hard on the logistics and transportation industry causing just about everything we use and consume to go up in price.
 
Generally property owners do not pay for sidewalks. They do not pay for crosswalk signs. They do not pay for the paint on crosswalks. They do not pay for pedestrian signs. They don't pay for sidewalks at government facilities. They ONLY pay for a sidewalk in front of their house - if they have one - no place else. But you logic of trying to exempt yourself, property owners pay for roads because they paid for their driveway.

Sidewalks deteriorate with nature and time, they don't last forever. But I get it! You don't ride a bicycle but do walk outside. So you want OTHER PEOPLE to pay YOUR WAY, while you want them to pay taxes for what they do AND what you do.

Typical calling always for taxing OTHER PEOPLE more hypocrisy.
I am primarily libertarian, but I do agree with a moderate amount of sharing our wealth for the public good.

Off topic, I am upset that bicyclists are allowed to disregard driving laws, and get preferential treatment. At a minimum, I want them to be required to pay for yearly registration and have a license plate like cars must have, and carry insurance if they ride on the streets.

I think enough is said on this topic for people reading our disagreement to make up their own minds.
 
I couldn't care less if the electric cars get a free ride. There really isn't a significant number of them on the road anyways.

The little gadget in your car for the government to track your mileage idea is insanely stupid and wasteful. All it will do is take money from the productive class and give it to leech class.
 
I couldn't care less if the electric cars get a free ride. There really isn't a significant number of them on the road anyways.

The little gadget in your car for the government to track your mileage idea is insanely stupid and wasteful. All it will do is take money from the productive class and give it to leech class.

I agree at this point in time. What about when they become the rule, rather than the exception? How do we pay for our roads?
 
If all vehicles had the same degree of fuel efficiency, tracking by miles might make some sense. What, with the larger vehicles using the most gas AND causing the most wear on the highways, such a law isn't fair by basic design.
 
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