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For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

Will you sign up for obamacare

  • I voted for obama and will sign up

    Votes: 3 33.3%

  • I voted for obama and will pay the fine

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I didn't vote for obama but will sign up

    Votes: 1 11.1%

  • I didn't vote for obama and will pay the fine

    Votes: 5 55.6%
  • Total voters
    9
Starbuck said:
With Massachusetts, I agree. They have managed their system, sure it is far from perfect, but it seems to be working.

I also agree with your take on the ACA, it will absolutely be harmful to our economy. Through reading the Heritage Foundation Study that you've referenced, I'd say the ACA is akin to "rent seeking" more than anything. I am by no means a supporter of the ACA, and honestly feel that this is a corporatism at it's finest (or lowest depending upon your take).

Personally, I feel that the government should provide Universal Health care. This is not a 'big government' solution in my mind, but a gateway to economic freedom for individuals. I'd hold up nations like Switzerland, South Korea, Japan or Chile as prime examples as to how this could work. I'd also hold them up as shining examples, according the the study, that Universal Health Care is not detrimental to economic freedom.

If you actually read the works of Adam Smith, I believe that in this day in age he would be a proponent of a Universal Health Care system, as he was a proponent of quality public education. To me it just makes sense, both financially and morally.





I absolutely agree. Either we go single payer, or the government keeps out of the business. The notion of having the Government mandate us to purchase a product from private companies is absurd and a prime example of "rent seeking," as defined by the study.
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My personal opinion is that health care is not a right, it's a product. The government has no responsibility to supply it however I acknowledge that every civil society should have mechanisms to help those in need. The issue here is who pays. I say the individual is responsible, not the collective. The further government involves itself in health care the fewer choices we will have, the quality of care will suffer as will research and development.

It's important to note however that Obamacare is not a health care bill. It's an insurance bill and the sooner people see it for what it is, the sooner it will head to the scrap heap of stupid ideas.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
I know you can't really sign up for obamacare yet because his site is so screwed up but I am wondering how many of you under 30 people in here will sign up when you can. Most of you voted for him so I expect you to go along with his agenda but we shall see.
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Uh you're missing an option because there's a lot of people who wont be signing up and also not paying the fine, like myself for example.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
I know you can't really sign up for obamacare yet because his site is so screwed up but I am wondering how many of you under 30 people in here will sign up when you can. Most of you voted for him so I expect you to go along with his agenda but we shall see.
Click to expand...

I am not under 30 but I did sign up. My coverage starts on January 1, 2014 and it costs me $60.64 for my wife and me. The policy costs $547.64 per month but I only pay $60.64. I guess I will receive a subsidy because my income is only $32,532.

I voted for John Mccain in 2008. I voted for Mitt Romney in 2012.

vasuderatorrent
 
sawdust said:
My personal opinion is that health care is not a right, it's a product. The government has no responsibility to supply it however I acknowledge that every civil society should have mechanisms to help those in need. The issue here is who pays. I say the individual is responsible, not the collective. The further government involves itself in health care the fewer choices we will have, the quality of care will suffer as will research and development.
Click to expand...

On this we definitely have diverging opinions, for several reasons.

1. I do actually believe that health care is as much of a right as police/ fire protection or education. I am a big free-market type of person, but I believe that in order for the markets to be truly free, individuals need the ability to live knowing that some things will be taken care of and contemporarily speaking I see health care as societally important as (again) both police/ fire protection and education. I also think that people like our beloved Adam Smith would agree.

2. As far as who pays, I again go back to my free-market approach. I am going to be paying for my health care, regardless of the outcome as I have a decent income. That being the case, empirical evidence is on the side of universal health care actually lowering the per capital cost of health related costs. Every developed nation with a publicly provided Universal Health Care system has costs much lower than those in the U.S.

3. As far as choices, I believe that the prohibitive nature of the costs have already reduced the 'choice' that the overwhelming majority of Americans have. Making this a Universally provided service would be no different than arguing that I cannot call another Fire Department when my house is on fire.


sawdust said:
It's important to note however that Obamacare is not a health care bill. It's an insurance bill and the sooner people see it for what it is, the sooner it will head to the scrap heap of stupid ideas.
Click to expand...

That is exactly right, and why I am patiently waiting for people to see this for what it is.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
I am not under 30 but I did sign up. My coverage starts on January 1, 2014 and it costs me $60.64 for my wife and me. The policy costs $547.64 per month but I only pay $60.64. I guess I will receive a subsidy because my income is only $32,532.
Click to expand...

I haven't really looked into the Health Care exchange yet, but was curious if you knew the name of the company that you'd be using as a provider from the website.

So, say I was to buy a plan, would I be informed about who was the issuing insurer?
 
Lots of kids in here saying I didn't list enough options in the poll but really I only needed two. Either you will sign up or you won't and apparently for one reason or another the vast majority of you won't. This is important because Obama himself says he needs you guys signing up in droves for his plan to even have a snowballs chance in Hell of succeeding. What your answers tell me is that for whatever reason you will decline to be a part of the signature policy the president you elected is begging you to join. Without the under 30 vote this yo yo never would have become pres in the first place and now you refuse to be part of his socialist agenda. Think about that and learn from your mistake.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
I know you can't really sign up for obamacare yet because his site is so screwed up but I am wondering how many of you under 30 people in here will sign up when you can. Most of you voted for him so I expect you to go along with his agenda but we shall see.
Click to expand...

Aso, I didn't think to add my specifics:

Age- 28
Voting- Didn't vote for Obama (independent candidate)
Insurance- I will not need to enroll in the market place, nor pay a fine because I already have comprehensive health insurance.
 
I still think that the poll options were disingenuous. Someone could've, theoretically voted for him while still thinking that his health care agenda is flawed. Often a candidate isn't completely ideal for any particular voter and one must weigh the good with the bad.

For me Gary Johnson was the most suitable choice, even though I knew full well that he wasn't going to get elected.

sawyerloggingon said:
Without the under 30 vote this yo yo never would have become pres in the first place and now you refuse to be part of his socialist agenda.
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I think you've made mistake in calling it 'socialist.' I believe that Corporatist is the operative term for that sort of program.
 
Starbuck said:
Aso, I didn't think to add my specifics:

Age- 28
Voting- Didn't vote for Obama (independent candidate)
Insurance- I will not need to enroll in the market place, nor pay a fine because I already have comprehensive health insurance.
Click to expand...

If you didn't vote for president s*** for brains I have no problem with you not going on his insurance, have a nice day.:)

EDIT: I think the Hawks are on and they have a shot this year.:2wave:
 
RedAkston said:
Why no option for "I don't need to sign up?" I have insurance and I'm not alone. Seems like this is yet another dishonest poll.
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A dishonest poll from a dishonest person.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
If you didn't vote for president s*** for brains I have no problem with you not going on his insurance, have a nice day.:)
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It's ironic that you lambasting young folks yet display the maturity of gradeschooler.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
If you didn't vote for president s*** for brains I have no problem with you not going on his insurance, have a nice day.:)
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Fair enough.

It's cloudy out and relatively cold, but I'm about to go down to the beach. So I imagine that I will have a nice day.

I'd say that you should also have a nice day.
 
Starbuck said:
Fair enough.

It's cloudy out and relatively cold, but I'm about to go down to the beach. So I imagine that I will have a nice day.

I'd say that you should also have a nice day.
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Hawks are not on I guess so I'll finish up in here and watch Denver lose I hope.
 
Starbuck said:
On this we definitely have diverging opinions, for several reasons.

1. I do actually believe that health care is as much of a right as police/ fire protection or education. I am a big free-market type of person, but I believe that in order for the markets to be truly free, individuals need the ability to live knowing that some things will be taken care of and contemporarily speaking I see health care as societally important as (again) both police/ fire protection and education. I also think that people like our beloved Adam Smith would agree.

2. As far as who pays, I again go back to my free-market approach. I am going to be paying for my health care, regardless of the outcome as I have a decent income. That being the case, empirical evidence is on the side of universal health care actually lowering the per capital cost of health related costs. Every developed nation with a publicly provided Universal Health Care system has costs much lower than those in the U.S.

3. As far as choices, I believe that the prohibitive nature of the costs have already reduced the 'choice' that the overwhelming majority of Americans have. Making this a Universally provided service would be no different than arguing that I cannot call another Fire Department when my house is on fire.




That is exactly right, and why I am patiently waiting for people to see this for what it is.
Click to expand...

Police and fire protection are not rights. They are services but access to them equally are rights because they are paid for with public money. If health care was a right I would be able to take it freely from those who provide it. I have to buy it because I have no such right. I have no right to take food from a farmer or a hat from the haberdasher. Food, clothing, fire and police protection are products or services like healthcare. If you have to buy it, there isn't a right to take it .
 
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sawyerloggingon said:
Lots of kids in here saying I didn't list enough options in the poll but really I only needed two. Either you will sign up or you won't and apparently for one reason or another the vast majority of you won't. This is important because Obama himself says he needs you guys signing up in droves for his plan to even have a snowballs chance in Hell of succeeding. What your answers tell me is that for whatever reason you will decline to be a part of the signature policy the president you elected is begging you to join. Without the under 30 vote this yo yo never would have become pres in the first place and now you refuse to be part of his socialist agenda. Think about that and learn from your mistake.
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The thing is the ACA was meant in part to help people who didn't have insurance, purchase an affordable plan for themselves. I already own health insurance through my employer, so not only do I not need the marketplace at this time and I'm not eligible for subsidies anyway, I'm already that young, healthy person that the president wants in the system.

And socialist agenda? That's f-cking adorable. :lol:
 
sawyerloggingon said:
I know you can't really sign up for obamacare yet because his site is so screwed up but I am wondering how many of you under 30 people in here will sign up when you can. Most of you voted for him so I expect you to go along with his agenda but we shall see.
Click to expand...

I'm in my 20's I voted for Obama but not based off of health care. I would have just gotten rid of insurance altogether, when I have to pay for everything myself it's a **** ton more expensive for me paying for my own when prices are higher because of the involvement of insurance companies.

I don't know what my best option at this point is, I'm still looking into it.
 
sawdust said:
Police and fire protection are not rights. They are services but access to them equally are rights because they are paid for with public money. If health care was a right I would be able to take it freely from those who provide it. I have to buy it because I have no such right. I have no right to take food from a farmer or a hat from the haberdasher. Food, clothing, fire and police protection are products or services like healthcare. If you have to buy it, there isn't a right to take it .
Click to expand...

I definitely see where you are coming from and I suppose that's why I said that Health Care is as much of a right as police/ fire protection.

Again, I come at this from the view of Adam Smith and feel that a healthy, safe & educated populace will lead to an economically prosperous nation. Health Care, especially as it is contemporarily practiced is definitely a cornerstone to any nations success.

I think that's why 9 out of the other top ten capitalist nations have taken the time to invest in the people and make sure that their #1 resources (humans) are secure and supported.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Here's the numbers for you kids still getting insured by mommy. This is what you will pay when they can't baby sit you any more and you buy your own insurance. Assuming you make 50 k you will pay over $2,500 a year for Obama care.

Subsidy Calculator | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation
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So, you'll pay 5% of your income to buy into a system that accounts for 18% of the GDP. That sounds like a bargain to me.

The issue with medical care is cost. We can't afford what we have much longer. We won't be able to afford it under Obamacare much longer either, but now we'll have something to blame it on.
 
Starbuck said:
I definitely see where you are coming from and I suppose that's why I said that Health Care is as much of a right as police/ fire protection.

Again, I come at this from the view of Adam Smith and feel that a healthy, safe & educated populace will lead to an economically prosperous nation. Health Care, especially as it is contemporarily practiced is definitely a cornerstone to any nations success.

I think that's why 9 out of the other top ten capitalist nations have taken the time to invest in the people and make sure that their #1 resources (humans) are secure and supported.
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I'm not arguing for an unhealthy populace. There are many things that we could have done to bring down the cost curve with health care. I agree with half of what Warren Buffet said when he said that a better idea would have been to apply market forces to help bring the cost of insurance down before doing something radical. He also said doing Obamacare was better than doing nothing. Warren and I are going to have to disagree about that.

If I were in charge I'd have removed all the barriers to competition in insurance markets which were caused by managed care and the commerce clause. Then I'd have encouraged insurance companies to not cover minor expenses and have patients pay a reasonable amount for doctors visits in cash but use insurance for major expenses. I believe that this would have brought premiums down significantly and the money saved in premiums would be greater than the occasional doctors visit.

Instead we've taken a sledge hammer to the insurance system and done nothing to reduce the costs. It's pretty crazy.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
I know you can't really sign up for obamacare yet because his site is so screwed up but I am wondering how many of you under 30 people in here will sign up when you can. Most of you voted for him so I expect you to go along with his agenda but we shall see.
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participation by full paying, healthy individuals has been an ongoing issue with the mass exchange. Not sure why national participation would trend differently
 
I definitely agree that there were plenty of things we (as a nation) could've done in that respect. That being said, it was doubly disheartening to watch us do all of the exactly wrong things (as a nation).

I also agree that the ACA was actually worse than doing nothing.

sawdust said:
Instead we've taken a sledge hammer to the insurance system and done nothing to reduce the costs. It's pretty crazy.
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I don't know that we took a sledge hammer to the insurance system, so much as we injected it with a million steroids.

Still crazy though.
 
Can't vote in the poll because there's no option for "I voted for Obama, but already have health insurance that qualifies so I don't need to sign up for Obamacare".

I'm also not sure why the OP is of the opinion that because you vote for a particular candidate, you support everything they do. I voted for Obama because he was the best choice available, not because I think he's perfect and support everything he does.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
I know you can't really sign up for obamacare yet because his site is so screwed up but I am wondering how many of you under 30 people in here will sign up when you can. Most of you voted for him so I expect you to go along with his agenda but we shall see.
Click to expand...

You need an option for people who are still covered by their families insurance which is a large swathe of under-30's in this country.
 
24 years old here- I didn't vote for him and I'm going to pay the fines. I work part time right now as an Optician and deal with insurances daily. All I see is costs going up with benefits going down.
 
Starbuck said:
I haven't really looked into the Health Care exchange yet, but was curious if you knew the name of the company that you'd be using as a provider from the website.

So, say I was to buy a plan, would I be informed about who was the issuing insurer?
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Yes but you have to remember that you can't buy insurance across state lines. I live in North Carolina. My policy is through Blue Cross Blue Shield of North Carolina. The name of my policy is NC Blue Value Silver 3000. It sounds pretty fancy. Doesn't it?

vasuderatorrent

By the way. Health Insurance is a stupid product for someone who owns as little as I do. I just bought it to comply with the law.
 
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