View Poll Results: Will you sign up for obamacare

Voters
16. You may not vote on this poll
  • I voted for obama and will sign up

    5 31.25%
  • I voted for obama and will pay the fine

    1 6.25%
  • I didn't vote for obama but will sign up

    2 12.50%
  • I didn't vote for obama and will pay the fine

    8 50.00%
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Thread: For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

  1. #61
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    Re: For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    If you didn't vote for president s*** for brains I have no problem with you not going on his insurance, have a nice day.
    It's ironic that you lambasting young folks yet display the maturity of gradeschooler.

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    Re: For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    If you didn't vote for president s*** for brains I have no problem with you not going on his insurance, have a nice day.
    Fair enough.

    It's cloudy out and relatively cold, but I'm about to go down to the beach. So I imagine that I will have a nice day.

    I'd say that you should also have a nice day.

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    Re: For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    Fair enough.

    It's cloudy out and relatively cold, but I'm about to go down to the beach. So I imagine that I will have a nice day.

    I'd say that you should also have a nice day.
    Hawks are not on I guess so I'll finish up in here and watch Denver lose I hope.

  4. #64
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    Re: For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    On this we definitely have diverging opinions, for several reasons.

    1. I do actually believe that health care is as much of a right as police/ fire protection or education. I am a big free-market type of person, but I believe that in order for the markets to be truly free, individuals need the ability to live knowing that some things will be taken care of and contemporarily speaking I see health care as societally important as (again) both police/ fire protection and education. I also think that people like our beloved Adam Smith would agree.

    2. As far as who pays, I again go back to my free-market approach. I am going to be paying for my health care, regardless of the outcome as I have a decent income. That being the case, empirical evidence is on the side of universal health care actually lowering the per capital cost of health related costs. Every developed nation with a publicly provided Universal Health Care system has costs much lower than those in the U.S.

    3. As far as choices, I believe that the prohibitive nature of the costs have already reduced the 'choice' that the overwhelming majority of Americans have. Making this a Universally provided service would be no different than arguing that I cannot call another Fire Department when my house is on fire.




    That is exactly right, and why I am patiently waiting for people to see this for what it is.
    Police and fire protection are not rights. They are services but access to them equally are rights because they are paid for with public money. If health care was a right I would be able to take it freely from those who provide it. I have to buy it because I have no such right. I have no right to take food from a farmer or a hat from the haberdasher. Food, clothing, fire and police protection are products or services like healthcare. If you have to buy it, there isn't a right to take it .
    Last edited by sawdust; 10-27-13 at 05:48 PM.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Lots of kids in here saying I didn't list enough options in the poll but really I only needed two. Either you will sign up or you won't and apparently for one reason or another the vast majority of you won't. This is important because Obama himself says he needs you guys signing up in droves for his plan to even have a snowballs chance in Hell of succeeding. What your answers tell me is that for whatever reason you will decline to be a part of the signature policy the president you elected is begging you to join. Without the under 30 vote this yo yo never would have become pres in the first place and now you refuse to be part of his socialist agenda. Think about that and learn from your mistake.
    The thing is the ACA was meant in part to help people who didn't have insurance, purchase an affordable plan for themselves. I already own health insurance through my employer, so not only do I not need the marketplace at this time and I'm not eligible for subsidies anyway, I'm already that young, healthy person that the president wants in the system.

    And socialist agenda? That's f-cking adorable.

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    Re: For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I know you can't really sign up for obamacare yet because his site is so screwed up but I am wondering how many of you under 30 people in here will sign up when you can. Most of you voted for him so I expect you to go along with his agenda but we shall see.
    I'm in my 20's I voted for Obama but not based off of health care. I would have just gotten rid of insurance altogether, when I have to pay for everything myself it's a **** ton more expensive for me paying for my own when prices are higher because of the involvement of insurance companies.

    I don't know what my best option at this point is, I'm still looking into it.
    I believe half of the things I say and say half of the things I believe.

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    Re: For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    Police and fire protection are not rights. They are services but access to them equally are rights because they are paid for with public money. If health care was a right I would be able to take it freely from those who provide it. I have to buy it because I have no such right. I have no right to take food from a farmer or a hat from the haberdasher. Food, clothing, fire and police protection are products or services like healthcare. If you have to buy it, there isn't a right to take it .
    I definitely see where you are coming from and I suppose that's why I said that Health Care is as much of a right as police/ fire protection.

    Again, I come at this from the view of Adam Smith and feel that a healthy, safe & educated populace will lead to an economically prosperous nation. Health Care, especially as it is contemporarily practiced is definitely a cornerstone to any nations success.

    I think that's why 9 out of the other top ten capitalist nations have taken the time to invest in the people and make sure that their #1 resources (humans) are secure and supported.

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    Re: For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Here's the numbers for you kids still getting insured by mommy. This is what you will pay when they can't baby sit you any more and you buy your own insurance. Assuming you make 50 k you will pay over $2,500 a year for Obama care.

    Subsidy Calculator | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation
    So, you'll pay 5% of your income to buy into a system that accounts for 18% of the GDP. That sounds like a bargain to me.

    The issue with medical care is cost. We can't afford what we have much longer. We won't be able to afford it under Obamacare much longer either, but now we'll have something to blame it on.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    I definitely see where you are coming from and I suppose that's why I said that Health Care is as much of a right as police/ fire protection.

    Again, I come at this from the view of Adam Smith and feel that a healthy, safe & educated populace will lead to an economically prosperous nation. Health Care, especially as it is contemporarily practiced is definitely a cornerstone to any nations success.

    I think that's why 9 out of the other top ten capitalist nations have taken the time to invest in the people and make sure that their #1 resources (humans) are secure and supported.
    I'm not arguing for an unhealthy populace. There are many things that we could have done to bring down the cost curve with health care. I agree with half of what Warren Buffet said when he said that a better idea would have been to apply market forces to help bring the cost of insurance down before doing something radical. He also said doing Obamacare was better than doing nothing. Warren and I are going to have to disagree about that.

    If I were in charge I'd have removed all the barriers to competition in insurance markets which were caused by managed care and the commerce clause. Then I'd have encouraged insurance companies to not cover minor expenses and have patients pay a reasonable amount for doctors visits in cash but use insurance for major expenses. I believe that this would have brought premiums down significantly and the money saved in premiums would be greater than the occasional doctors visit.

    Instead we've taken a sledge hammer to the insurance system and done nothing to reduce the costs. It's pretty crazy.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I know you can't really sign up for obamacare yet because his site is so screwed up but I am wondering how many of you under 30 people in here will sign up when you can. Most of you voted for him so I expect you to go along with his agenda but we shall see.
    participation by full paying, healthy individuals has been an ongoing issue with the mass exchange. Not sure why national participation would trend differently

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