View Poll Results: Will you sign up for obamacare

Voters
16. You may not vote on this poll
  • I voted for obama and will sign up

    5 31.25%
  • I voted for obama and will pay the fine

    1 6.25%
  • I didn't vote for obama but will sign up

    2 12.50%
  • I didn't vote for obama and will pay the fine

    8 50.00%
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Thread: For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

  1. #41
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    Re: For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zariak View Post
    No need to dumb it down for me, I understand the concepts of economics, debt, and deficit.
    In fact, it seems to me that your concept of how our debt problem can be solved is incorrect.
    American debt is much owed to ourselves. Do you understand this?
    We claim 89 cents to every dollar we owe china. We are not indentured servants to a foreign country.
    Countries can operate with over 100 percent debt. Look at the UK.
    We're in debt now, but are you really feeling like our country is crumbling into economic ruin?

    Also, you failed to mention the correlation between Obama and Obamacare.
    Glad you are beyond most of your piers in high school. Many liberals believe that the economy is the same as the federal budget. The economy happens on main street, not on Wall Street or Pennsylvania Avenue.

    You're right that most of the money we owe, we owe to ourselves. We still owe it. There's a problem with that because the debt is mainly owed to the entitlement programs we created for social security and medicaid. Those programs have serious financial problems because when they were created life expectancy was 62 years and now it's 85. As baby boomers retire there won't be enough of you to pay for them. That's the problem with owing money to ourselves.

    We aren't indentured servants to a foreign country. We are indentured to Washington. We have slipped from the worlds leader in economic liberty to number ten behind countries like Chile, Denmark and Canada. As government grows, liberty shrinks.

    Europe is a good example of the expanding social contract. Standard unemployment in Germany is 10 percent. Ours used to be between four and five. There is a reason that people in Great Britain have poor dental care. Dentists can't make money there so there is a shortage. I wouldn't look to Europe as a model culture.

    There is no utopia. The best system for humans is maximum liberty, freedom, respect for the rights of others and personal responsibility.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I know you can't really sign up for obamacare yet because his site is so screwed up but I am wondering how many of you under 30 people in here will sign up when you can. Most of you voted for him so I expect you to go along with his agenda but we shall see.
    I didn't see any option for "I didn't vote for Obama and will neither sign up nor pay the fine."

    That'd be my option, as I already have relatively good health insurance.

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    Re: For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    We have slipped from the worlds leader in economic liberty to number ten behind countries like Chile, Denmark and Canada. As government grows, liberty shrinks.
    Just to point out some of the irony in your post, all three of those countries have universal public health care.

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    Re: For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I know you can't really sign up for obamacare yet because his site is so screwed up
    I used the website on Friday and I signed up.

    I'm not under 30 but I did want to correct the misinformation about the website not working.

    vasuderatorrent

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    Re: For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    Just to point out some of the irony in your post, all three of those countries have universal public health care.
    The logistics of dealing with a small population make that understandable but no country measured forces it's citizens to buy a product.

    Here are the criteria used in the study I quoted.

    Q.3. How do you measure economic freedom?
    We measure ten components of economic freedom, assigning a grade in each using a scale from 0 to 100, where 100 represents the maximum freedom. The 10 economic freedoms are grouped into four broad categories or pillars of economic freedom:

    Rule of Law (property rights, freedom from corruption);
    Limited Government (fiscal freedom, government spending);
    Regulatory Efficiency (business freedom, labor freedom, monetary freedom); and
    Open Markets (trade freedom, investment freedom, financial freedom).
    Each of the freedoms within these four broad categories is individually scored on a scale of 0 to 100. A country's overall economic freedom score is a simple average of its scores on the 10 individual freedoms. Detailed information about the methodology used to score each component is contained in the appendix.

    2013 Index of Economic Freedom | The Heritage Foundation
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Seems like having your cake and eating it to.
    Just like lower taxes and massive spending. Get used to it. This is the American way. We demand insanity.

    vasuderatorrent

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    Re: For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    The logistics of dealing with a small population make that understandable but no country measured forces it's citizens to buy a product.
    Quick note, prior to me reading the entire study.

    All of the nations that rate above the United States in economic liberty provide universal healthcare. Sure you could throw out the notion that a smaller population would be easier to manage in this respect, but it's all relative if you ask me.

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    Re: For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    Quick note, prior to me reading the entire study.

    All of the nations that rate above the United States in economic liberty provide universal healthcare. Sure you could throw out the notion that a smaller population would be easier to manage in this respect, but it's all relative if you ask me.
    Massachusetts has universal coverage. they managed it, regardless of what I think. Their population is closer to Denmark than that of the United States and I would wager that it hasn't harmed their economy as much as Obamacare will harm ours. We have 350,000,000 people and we are witnessing the Federal government's ability to keep their **** together.

    I would say that forcing everyone to buy insurance would have a deleterious effect on our economic freedom.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    Massachusetts has universal coverage. they managed it, regardless of what I think. Their population is closer to Denmark than that of the United States and I would wager that it hasn't harmed their economy as much as Obamacare will harm ours. We have 350,000,000 people and we are witnessing the Federal government's ability to keep their **** together.
    With Massachusetts, I agree. They have managed their system, sure it is far from perfect, but it seems to be working.

    I also agree with your take on the ACA, it will absolutely be harmful to our economy. Through reading the Heritage Foundation Study that you've referenced, I'd say the ACA is akin to "rent seeking" more than anything. I am by no means a supporter of the ACA, and honestly feel that this is a corporatism at it's finest (or lowest depending upon your take).

    Personally, I feel that the government should provide Universal Health care. This is not a 'big government' solution in my mind, but a gateway to economic freedom for individuals. I'd hold up nations like Switzerland, South Korea, Japan or Chile as prime examples as to how this could work. I'd also hold them up as shining examples, according the the study, that Universal Health Care is not detrimental to economic freedom.

    If you actually read the works of Adam Smith, I believe that in this day in age he would be a proponent of a Universal Health Care system, as he was a proponent of quality public education. To me it just makes sense, both financially and morally.



    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    I would say that forcing everyone to buy insurance would have a deleterious effect on our economic freedom.
    I absolutely agree. Either we go single payer, or the government keeps out of the business. The notion of having the Government mandate us to purchase a product from private companies is absurd and a prime example of "rent seeking," as defined by the study.

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    Re: For the under 30 crowd in here [W:38]

    Can't vote in this poll. I voted for Obama and already have health insurance, so I can't sign up or pay a fine.

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