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Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

  • Yes

    Votes: 28 45.2%
  • No

    Votes: 34 54.8%

  • Total voters
    62
The better colleges pay their instructors more and get better results. There is no reason to think that the same wouldn't happen with public K-12 schools if handled correctly. Many people opt out of teaching because they can get better pay (and working conditions) elsewhere. Higher pay will generate more candidates for teaching positions, allowing schools the ability to choose only the better ones.

The better colleges are also highly selective but I don't know that their professors are actually paid more. Either way, I suspect Harvard's average GPA would drop substantially if they dropped their standards to that of the average community college.
 
A teacher is only as functional as their oversight. Incomp boss, lazy teacher.
 
Considering the best teachers I've had are without exception making $100k+ as professors, and how lousy and poorly compensated my K-12 teachers were, I'd say there's definitely a correlation. But also understand, there aren't enough PhD's to go around teaching K-12, if they're even willing to do that. Raising pay but keeping the same teachers isn't going to solve much.

So every K-12 teacher you had was terrible and every college profesor you had was great?

I find that hard to believe.
 
So every K-12 teacher you had was terrible and every college profesor you had was great?

I find that hard to believe.

In terms of knowing what the hell they're talking about, yes. I have some respect for the ones in the early years for keeping us out of trouble, but the point of education is not day care, or at least it shouldn't be.
 
In terms of knowing what the hell they're talking about, yes. I have some respect for the ones in the early years for keeping us out of trouble, but the point of education is not day care, or at least it shouldn't be.

Wow, that is a pretty strong statement.

So you learned math and Reading when you got to college, right? You learned nothing with those crappy K-12 teachers?
 
You might want to do some research on that part about Private Schools paying more than Public Schools. In general I think you will find the wages less.

My sister used to teach in a private Catholic School, she made about 50% of what Public School teachers made and had "0" benefits (no medical, dental, or retirement).


(I'm talking "in general" here, there may be exception of some high end, pay out the yang private schools.)

>>>>

It appears you may be right although he gap is closing. A better teaching environment with smaller class sizes seems to attract enough teachers even at slightly lower pay.
 
Living in Mexico, I have met quite a few people who work on both sides of the field in both private and public schools. As far as publics go, they are a mess. Teachers get paid to do basically nothing and couldn't care less if kids pass or not. As far as private schools go, teachers are worked like indentured servants without much hope of ever bettering themselves. So essentially, Mexico represents the worst of both worlds.
 
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So every K-12 teacher you had was terrible and every college profesor you had was great?

I find that hard to believe.

Probably the difference between stupid educational teachers thru high school and then brilliant philosopher professors in college?
 
Wow, that is a pretty strong statement.

So you learned math and Reading when you got to college, right? You learned nothing with those crappy K-12 teachers?

Did i say i learned nothing at all back then? But it could have just as easily, and more efficiently, been learned from others. I'm generally more critical of middle/high school anyway. The glacial pace of instruction, considering we were there for several hours most days, is especially glaring now.
 
Considering the best teachers I've had are without exception making $100k+ as professors, and how lousy and poorly compensated my K-12 teachers were, I'd say there's definitely a correlation. But also understand, there aren't enough PhD's to go around teaching K-12, if they're even willing to do that. Raising pay but keeping the same teachers isn't going to solve much.

Without a doubt the worst teachers I had were at university and the best were in high school. Professors don't "teach", they lecture.
 
Before I even consider posting in this thread, how many people here actually have experience in education, and how many are just regurgitating the same stuff they hear from the corporate media?
 
That is not to say that education and skill is not required to effectively teach students. I had some really good high school teachers that did a great job of making things stick.

Thing is, with any educator (be it high school, college, or technical trade skills) you need more than knowledge about the subject at hand, you also need to know how to deal with people. I work in heavy industry and deal with a lot of complicated equipment/ machinery, but I'll be the first to point out that the human beings I deal with are infinitely more complicated than any piece of equipment.

But I would argue that a history teach only needs to know a pretty general, rarely changing set of things. . . It doesn't involve dynamic problem solving and in depth analyzation of complex material

I figured that the conversation was talking about primary education (K-12).

Sure history sounds pretty straight forward, but getting a bunch of children to care about history and actually retain the information is an entirely different set of skills. I love reading about history, but I don't have to teach it.

Everything about education, if it's done correctly, is dynamic. People are dynamic, I think you're really thinking about school in a very one dimensional way.
 
I stand corrected.

Show teachers be paid the salary teachers are paid in N. Korea?

Not sure. We have a different culture and different issues. Their culture is centered around respect to self and honoring the family. Ours is completely different. They stay hours after school competing and training in both education and sport. Our kids don't for the most part.

Make the pay the same as Canada or New Zealand, where I teach. Sure. We are rated 4th to the USA's 14th. The pay is basically the same already. I make pretty much what I made when I taught in CA.
 
It's not really intended to be a blanket statement for each and every profession, it's more of a statement saying if you can't cut it in your profession you wind up teaching.

I've heard this statement a lot, and every time I shake my head.

Those who know nothing of teaching, assign someone who can't cut it to educate. That's where people start building this 'training industrial complex' that we are looking at in the United States. That mentality is something that grew out of the "checks in the box" attitude.
 
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Before I even consider posting in this thread, how many people here actually have experience in education, and how many are just regurgitating the same stuff they hear from the corporate media?

Exactly! All the arm chair QBs that don't understand the real issues chime in with their two cents and it is ridiculous. When NASA has problems with the Mars Rover I don't chime in telling them what to do, same with doctors running a hospital. It is ridiculous.
 
Raising hand, I had 33 years teaching high school Chemistry first, Physics 2nd and freshman science 3rd..
As Illinois stays with common-core and moves toward tieing teacher pay to test scores, neighboring states like Indiana are opting out..
Before I even consider posting in this thread,
how many people here actually have experience in education,
and how many are just regurgitating the same stuff they hear from the corporate media?
The opt-out-of-everything states looks a lot like the RED states in a POTUS election with phony 10th amendment arguments..
Since I still teach with long-term subbing, I learn a new place each year..
New computer system, kids wearing hats in school and so on and trying to break them when they come in the room..
The number of teachers getting fired, getting pregnant, and just overall bailing out is astounding .
 
We get a list from local teachers of items they need, buy them, and give them directly to the teachers. No cash donations. No tax deduction that way, but that's not the reason we give.

I honestly think that's the best way to do things.

We've never donated for the tax deduction either, but solely for the benefit of those we give to. One of our kids teachers asked for books for the class library, and we gave lots of books. They sent home a Cookie fundraiser and we didn't buy a single box of cookies.
 
Before I even consider posting in this thread, how many people here actually have experience in education, and how many are just regurgitating the same stuff they hear from the corporate media?

I agree completely agree.

I don't have a lot of experience with primary education (K-12), but I've spent a lot of time as an instructor in the Military and in various other industrial capacities. I've always noticed that adults, for the most part, are basically just big children, so I figure what I've done is similar to school.
 
Without a doubt the worst teachers I had were at university and the best were in high school. Professors don't "teach", they lecture.

Well then all i can surmise is we've had a vastly different experience with public (?) education.
 
"Them that can do, them that can't teach". I myself know three people who went into teaching after age 40 because they failed at everything else.

So that's an argument for higher pay. If you pay enough you attract enough good people that you don't become a last resort for failures.
 
Did i say i learned nothing at all back then? But it could have just as easily, and more efficiently, been learned from others. I'm generally more critical of middle/high school anyway. The glacial pace of instruction, considering we were there for several hours most days, is especially glaring now.

I have to ask how old you are because if you are not at least 38 years old, you don't have perspective enough to answer this question.
 
Raising hand, I had 33 years teaching high school Chemistry first, Physics 2nd and freshman science 3rd..
As Illinois stays with common-core and moves toward tieing teacher pay to test scores, neighboring states like Indiana are opting out..

The opt-out-of-everything states looks a lot like the RED states in a POTUS election with phony 10th amendment arguments..
Since I still teach with long-term subbing, I learn a new place each year..
New computer system, kids wearing hats in school and so on and trying to break them when they come in the room..
The number of teachers getting fired, getting pregnant, and just overall bailing out is astounding .

Well we can have teachers getting fired or pregnant, can we?

The average person make 3 major career (not just employment) changes in their lives. But it would seem that you think if a teacher decides to do something different with his/her life, there is something wrong with the system.
 
So that's an argument for higher pay. If you pay enough you attract enough good people that you don't become a last resort for failures.

It also is an argument against higher pay as higher pay solicits people who are in teaching only for the money and don't care about students or teaching at all - only the pay check.
 
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