View Poll Results: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

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  • Yes

    37 48.05%
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Thread: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

  1. #311
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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Seriously, when we have "Lawyer Appreciation" week or a little kid walks up to an accountant and says, "thank you sir, you helped me out so much" or the Price Is Right has a bunch of shows saluting architects, we'll start talking about who has it better.
    Teachers do get their share of recognition.

    I'm not sure just why you seem to think this is a bad thing, but whatever.

    They also get their share of know nothing yahoos telling them that they get paid too much, that if only they could be fired more easily, schools would be better, that they only work part time, that "those who can do" and all that sort of nonsense.

    So, it all balances out, doesn't it?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zariak View Post
    Maybe I should have been more specific, but I think you missed the part "with the due education, of course."

    How many doctors do you know with crap work ethic?
    That's because they have 8 plus years of schooling plus 5 years of residency/fellowship/research.
    They're job is incredibly important, and so are teacher's jobs.
    I want to make teaching a job that kids grow up and dream about being.
    So many smart people with high work ethic are turned off by the low pay and low respect teachers receive.
    They deserve better.
    If I was a doctor, I'd smack the hell out of you for comparing me to a teacher insofar as work ethic and required learning.

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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    I'm good with that, if they're relatively "poor" states.

    Around here, if you made 30K a year, you could live quite comfortably. Of course, I believe the average starting teacher wage for Alabama is closer to 40.
    Certainly. In other areas, like our state, you run into the problem where you can't afford to live there if you aren't making a lot more, and teachers (along with other jobs not in that specific field) are below that level. It's sad, but I don't think you can get a way out of that problem.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Teachers do get their share of recognition.

    I'm not sure just why you seem to think this is a bad thing, but whatever.

    They also get their share of know nothing yahoos telling them that they get paid too much, that if only they could be fired more easily, schools would be better, that they only work part time, that "those who can do" and all that sort of nonsense.

    So, it all balances out, doesn't it?
    Teachers get your share...my share...the whole block's share...that neighborhood across the street - their share...

    I'm not saying that it's better. I'm saying that self-actualization is also a form of compensation. There are SEVERAL legitimate, quantitative, objective reasons as to why teachers don't make obscene money. I prefer them over rants, raves, and appeals to emotion.

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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zariak View Post
    Maybe I should have been more specific, but I think you missed the part "with the due education, of course."

    How many doctors do you know with crap work ethic?
    That's because they have 8 plus years of schooling plus 5 years of residency/fellowship/research.
    They're job is incredibly important, and so are teacher's jobs.
    I want to make teaching a job that kids grow up and dream about being.
    So many smart people with high work ethic are turned off by the low pay and low respect teachers receive.
    They deserve better.
    Low teacher pay is a myth. Most teachers are paid well and many are paid waaaay more than they deserve.


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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I don't know what teachers are paid in your jurisdiction - I can tell you here in Toronto, elementary and secondary school teachers have a range that goes from about $35,000 for a first year teacher up to just under $100,000 for a fully qualified and experienced teacher. At least here in Toronto, the vast majority of teachers are in the upper pay brackets, with 20 plus years experience. While they constantly, continuously, carp about not being appreciated and deserving more in pay and benefits, there are precious few who give up teaching for another career.
    I can't speak about Toronto, but I can speak for the school system where I do data analysis.

    I just ran an experience report and converted that into chart form.

    Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?-experiencedistribution-jpg


    "Steps" in our system equate to years of experience. The visual representation shows the distribution of experience over time.

    We hire 150-200 Teacher every summer for the next school year. A couple of dozen are typically due to retirement, some for performance, some for spouses relocating, etc. - but the vast majority are for people that couldn't hack teaching after swallowing the Blue Pill (Matrix Reference) and thought teaching was a cake-walk and went looking for employment elsewhere.

    So while it might seem like there are a lot of old hang-out teachers, the reality is that the vast majority have under 20 years and I can state that these figures would be pretty close for the surrounding school systems in this area (of which there are 8).



    ** The line spike on the right side represents all teachers with 35 or more years experience as that is out top official grade, those with more then 35 receive the equivalent of an addition stipend for additional years.


    >>>>

  7. #317
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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    I can't speak about Toronto, but I can speak for the school system where I do data analysis.

    I just ran an experience report and converted that into chart form.

    Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?-experiencedistribution-jpg


    "Steps" in our system equate to years of experience. The visual representation shows the distribution of experience over time.

    We hire 150-200 Teacher every summer for the next school year. A couple of dozen are typically due to retirement, some for performance, some for spouses relocating, etc. - but the vast majority are for people that couldn't hack teaching after swallowing the Blue Pill (Matrix Reference) and thought teaching was a cake-walk and went looking for employment elsewhere.

    So while it might seem like there are a lot of old hang-out teachers, the reality is that the vast majority have under 20 years and I can state that these figures would be pretty close for the surrounding school systems in this area (of which there are 8).



    ** The line spike on the right side represents all teachers with 35 or more years experience as that is out top official grade, those with more then 35 receive the equivalent of an addition stipend for additional years.


    >>>>
    Thanks for the info - clearly, Toronto is a far more mature system than the one you presented.

    In Toronto, the pay scale doesn't just go by years on the job but additional qualifications received over time. In effect, there are ten categories for experience, say along the horizontal axis and ten categories for additional qualifications along the vertical axis. In Toronto, about 60% of all teachers are in the upper right corner with maximum experience and maximum qualifications making them paid at the highest rate possible.

    In addition, teachers' superannuation (pension) is unlimited up to a maximum of 100% of salary - pension is 2% of salary for each year of employment.

    Finally, the government passed legislation a few years back making mandatory retirement at 65 illegal unless a person is physically or mentally unable to perform the duties.

    As a result of all this, we have a very mature workforce making the most money and not retiring in sufficient numbers to allow as many new teachers into the systems as management would like.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    I teach on a college level. I kinda enjoy reading what all these experts think about what is happening in schools today. Even though some have not driven though a campus for years. Pretty entertaining. Many of the real experts around here I bet are high school grads...probably.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Before I even consider posting in this thread, how many people here actually have experience in education, and how many are just regurgitating the same stuff they hear from the corporate media?
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Thanks for the info - clearly, Toronto is a far more mature system than the one you presented.

    In Toronto, the pay scale doesn't just go by years on the job but additional qualifications received over time. In effect, there are ten categories for experience, say along the horizontal axis and ten categories for additional qualifications along the vertical axis. In Toronto, about 60% of all teachers are in the upper right corner with maximum experience and maximum qualifications making them paid at the highest rate possible.

    In addition, teachers' superannuation (pension) is unlimited up to a maximum of 100% of salary - pension is 2% of salary for each year of employment.

    Finally, the government passed legislation a few years back making mandatory retirement at 65 illegal unless a person is physically or mentally unable to perform the duties.

    As a result of all this, we have a very mature workforce making the most money and not retiring in sufficient numbers to allow as many new teachers into the systems as management would like.

    #1 - We have also have multiple "lanes" as we call them for differing qualifications, 9 with a 10th if you count stipends for National Board Certified Teachers. I was addressing the experience portion of your statement.

    #2 - You said "the vast majority of teachers are in the upper pay brackets, with 20 plus years experience." I simply provided a counterpoint that that isn't likely true, if you were to pull an experience distribution of your school system I'd bet it look similar to ours where most of your teacher population falls under the 20 year mark.

    #3 - As you say, teacher can reach the top pay scale at 10 years. Therefore just because teachers on are on the top payscale does not mean that the "vast majority of teachers" have 20+ years.


    >>>>

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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    Low teacher pay is a myth. Most teachers are paid well and many are paid waaaay more than they deserve.
    nat avg. 35,000 dollars/year

    I'm not sure where you teach, but obviously they pay you better.
    "I mean, everybody should have access to medical care. And, you know, it shouldn't be such a big deal."
    -Dr. Paul Farmer

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