View Poll Results: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

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Thread: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

  1. #21
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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob N View Post
    Zariak: here is what I think of this topic. I would use a system like this or similar:

    I believe that it's OK to start teachers at 100K; however, when the student has his/her evaluation--conducted through the standardized testing--the teachers' evaluation should be judged using the same criteria that the students are judged--in other words, just how many students pass that test. If you have a good number pass the test the teachers receives a passing or good evaluation, but if there are a large number of students fail the tests than the teachers should receive a point for percentage of students that failed, compared to passing, to be later reviewed by the administration. When the tests are given again and the students pass, the point is taken away.

    If students keep failing the teachers should be disciplined and perhaps terminated if it continues.


    Why not start them at a very low wage rate and pay them on commission? if the students do well on the tests, they get a raise. If not, they get a cut.

    If they only do average, they get to stay where they are.
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

  2. #22
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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    I think that in any environment where there's someone willing to pay more in order to get a higher quality professional, higher salaries are going to be needed in order to get access to better-than-average quality.

    Higher salaries do not in and of themselves ensure quality. For that you have to have sound hiring practices and oversight.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  3. #23
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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    Why not start them at a very low wage rate and pay them on commission? if the students do well on the tests, they get a raise. If not, they get a cut.

    If they only do average, they get to stay where they are.
    They won't take the job for low rates. Think about it. If you're a mechanic and you're good at what you do, and there are mechanics out there making $25.00 an hour, are you going to take $8.00 an hour?
    "The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." `Thomas Jefferson

  4. #24
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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zariak View Post
    Okay, I was following you until you decided to turn this into a partisan issue, which it doesn't have to be.

    Please provide the evidence that shows that the average parochial/private school student costs less to educate.

    Do not dumb my words down.

    You cannot have effective doctors if you pay them 32K a year. Their job is too damn important

    Educators are just as important, if not, more important than doctors. Isn't it time we raised the standards?
    If you want to work "smarter", then we need to start with the people who make our children "smarter."
    You wonder why there is litle corollary between spending and education quality as it is, it's because we're not using the money effectively, of course.
    How do we use the money effectively? Pay money for better teachers.


    I live in Indianapolis so that is where I base my understanding of this.

    Below are links that reveal that the private parochial School of Roncalli is educating students at a cost of about $5000 less than the average Indianapolis Public School student. The difference might be greater than shown here because the inefficiency and incompetence of the public school system has not allowed the release of the up to date figures while Roncalli is for this academic year. The IPS figures are from 2011.

    Stated another way, the Indianapolis public school student costs an additional 40% not paid in the tuition of the Roncalli Students. The test scores at Roncalli are better, there is not a prison look to the school including the razor wire and high fences and the knifings and the other crimes reported from other city schools don't occur.

    I am not aware of the political affiliation of Jonas Salk. I assume Sebelius is a Democrat.

    Indianapolis Public Schools

    Tuition Information Roncalli High School
    Last edited by code1211; 10-27-13 at 02:02 PM.
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

  5. #25
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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    That is not correct. All this does in increase the pay of the people who enter the profession.
    "All this"?

  6. #26
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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zariak View Post
    Okay, I was following you until you decided to turn this into a partisan issue, which it doesn't have to be.

    Please provide the evidence that shows that the average parochial/private school student costs less to educate.

    Do not dumb my words down.

    You cannot have effective doctors if you pay them 32K a year. Their job is too damn important

    Educators are just as important, if not, more important than doctors. Isn't it time we raised the standards?
    If you want to work "smarter", then we need to start with the people who make our children "smarter."
    You wonder why there is litle corollary between spending and education quality as it is, it's because we're not using the money effectively, of course.
    How do we use the money effectively? Pay money for better teachers.


    The pay that we allocate to our teachers is greater than any other country in the world.

    How do they do it?
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

  7. #27
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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I think that in any environment where there's someone willing to pay more in order to get a higher quality professional, higher salaries are going to be needed in order to get access to better-than-average quality.

    Higher salaries do not in and of themselves ensure quality. For that you have to have sound hiring practices and oversight.


    As I understand what it happening right now, the educational system is cutting back on the numbers of educators that are employed. This must mean that there are some who are out of work.

    If there are more than one person looking to get the same job, we should be able to get the best of that group to fill that job at a lower rate of pay.

    You know, like EVERY OTHER BUSINESS IN THE COUNTRY is doing right now.
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

  8. #28
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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    yes, but i'd say school funding and class design is more important. the best teacher in the world is going to have a challenge with huge class sizes and mandated instruction techniques no matter how much you pay him or her.

    if i started a school tomorrow, here's what i'd do : classes meet every other day for twice as long, with lecture followed by assignments. the teacher would tutor during the assignment section, and lectures would also be put on youtube for later review. max class size of 25.

  9. #29
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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    As I understand what it happening right now, the educational system is cutting back on the numbers of educators that are employed. This must mean that there are some who are out of work.

    If there are more than one person looking to get the same job, we should be able to get the best of that group to fill that job at a lower rate of pay.

    You know, like EVERY OTHER BUSINESS IN THE COUNTRY is doing right now.
    If all you want to do is fill a position with a technically qualified candidate, or if so many positions have been cut that higher quality teachers are out of work, sure.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  10. #30
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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob N View Post
    They won't take the job for low rates. Think about it. If you're a mechanic and you're good at what you do, and there are mechanics out there making $25.00 an hour, are you going to take $8.00 an hour?


    When the Wisconsin Government workers were up in arms about the draconian cuts imposed by the governor, it was almost humorous how the math worked out. The average educator in that state in the public schools, not administrators by educator, was earning more than 50K/year.

    The people that these folks educated, including themselves, averaged out to an average wage of about 35K/year.

    The teachers were educating people to a level that allowed them to earn 35K and were demanding a pay rate 40% higher supported by the workers who were making 40% less.

    What's wrong with this picture?

    Regarding your mechanic analogy, if the mechanic was good, regardless of his seniority, he would be making the top rate. If he was ineffective or worse, produced damage, he would not be well paid.

    What is wrong with paying based on outcomes?
    Last edited by code1211; 10-27-13 at 02:20 PM.
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

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