View Poll Results: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

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  • Yes

    37 48.05%
  • No

    40 51.95%
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Thread: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

  1. #11
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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    I voted no, but if teacher unions were broke up and all were paid on a performance scale I might have voted yes
    That would only be half the battle. A government bureaucrat can never be efficient. Education has to be completely privatized.

  2. #12
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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zariak View Post
    I'm personally disappointed with how much our educators make. IMO, they should be starting at around 100K salaries, with the due education, of course.

    But, there's always the nagging thought in my head that tells me there might not even be any correlation between education quality and teacher pay.

    I think we can all agree that our education system needs fixing. What do you think?
    It is hard to say, if there an immediate correlation. If you increase the income of a profession, however, you find the quality of people who enter the profession rises.

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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zariak View Post
    I'm personally disappointed with how much our educators make. IMO, they should be starting at around 100K salaries, with the due education, of course.

    But, there's always the nagging thought in my head that tells me there might not even be any correlation between education quality and teacher pay.

    I think we can all agree that our education system needs fixing. What do you think?
    Before the advent of the Department of Education which has evolved into a Union office for the NEA, the USA ranked near the top in spending per student and test score averages.

    Following that and in a pretty well documented progression, the spending has increased over that of the other industrialized countries and the test performance has declined relative to the rest of the world.

    It is very supportable that the spending per student is not a corollary to the quality of the education that is taken away by the student. Even domestically, the average parochial school and private school student costs less to educate, but scores higher on the tests that peg the result of the education.

    Increasing the cost of anything does not automatically increase the quality of that thing.

    You are a victim of liberalism and the resulting mind set. We need to work smarter, not bigger.

    As the distance between the spending decision and the decision maker increases, the effectiveness of that decision decreases.

    U.S. Students Still Lag Behind Foreign Peers, Schools Make Little Progress In Improving Achievement

    U.S. Education Spending & Student Performance vs. The World Infographic | MAT@USC | USC Rossier Online
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

  4. #14
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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zariak View Post
    I'm personally disappointed with how much our educators make. IMO, they should be starting at around 100K salaries, with the due education, of course.

    But, there's always the nagging thought in my head that tells me there might not even be any correlation between education quality and teacher pay.

    I think we can all agree that our education system needs fixing. What do you think?
    Zariak: here is what I think of this topic. I would use a system like this or similar:

    I believe that it's OK to start teachers at 100K; however, when the student has his/her evaluation--conducted through the standardized testing--the teachers' evaluation should be judged using the same criteria that the students are judged--in other words, just how many students pass that test. If you have a good number pass the test the teachers receives a passing or good evaluation, but if there are a large number of students fail the tests than the teachers should receive a point for percentage of students that failed, compared to passing, to be later reviewed by the administration. When the tests are given again and the students pass, the point is taken away.

    If students keep failing the teachers should be disciplined and perhaps terminated if it continues.
    "The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." `Thomas Jefferson

  5. #15
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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Well, California has proven rather conclusively that high teacher pay does not correlate to quality education. Just as spending per pupil doesn't correlate.

    The fix will not come from pay, or quality of classroom, it will come when education removes social justice from it's focus, and returns to Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic.
    : When I was in grade school, we had a mix of all races. We didn't know then that we were supposed to dislike each other because of it, though! We were there to learn, period, and the teacher was the one in charge. As a matter of fact, if we got in trouble at school, we could expect trouble at home from our parents! This current "social justice" is feeding an agenda we can do without, IMO!

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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    I don't necessarily believe that raises handed out to current teachers would result in enhanced performance, but wage hikes in the field in general would likely do much to lure brighter minds away from more lucrative fields.


    Are you saying that a person who chooses to be an educator simply to get paid will enhance the ability, the empathy, the sympathy and understanding of that person in ways that will improve the educational outcome?

    The educational system of the Great Depression gave us Jonas Salk.

    The educational system of the Great Society gave us Kathleen Sebelius.

    If Jonas Salk was subjected to the increased educational outlays for education as was Sebelius, polio would still be the leading cause of death to pour children.

    God help us all now that Sebelius has her boot on our collective throat. How do you treat a sore throat the results from the governmental application of a boot?
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

  7. #17
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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by code1211 View Post
    Before the advent of the Department of Education which has evolved into a Union office for the NEA, the USA ranked near the top in spending per student and test score averages.

    Following that and in a pretty well documented progression, the spending has increased over that of the other industrialized countries and the test performance has declined relative to the rest of the world.

    It is very supportable that the spending per student is not a corollary to the quality of the education that is taken away by the student. Even domestically, the average parochial school and private school student costs less to educate, but scores higher on the tests that peg the result of the education.

    Increasing the cost of anything does not automatically increase the quality of that thing.

    You are a victim of liberalism and the resulting mind set. We need to work smarter, not bigger.

    As the distance between the spending decision and the decision maker increases, the effectiveness of that decision decreases.

    U.S. Students Still Lag Behind Foreign Peers, Schools Make Little Progress In Improving Achievement

    U.S. Education Spending & Student Performance vs. The World Infographic | MAT@USC | USC Rossier Online
    Okay, I was following you until you decided to turn this into a partisan issue, which it doesn't have to be.

    Please provide the evidence that shows that the average parochial/private school student costs less to educate.

    Do not dumb my words down.

    You cannot have effective doctors if you pay them 32K a year. Their job is too damn important

    Educators are just as important, if not, more important than doctors. Isn't it time we raised the standards?
    If you want to work "smarter", then we need to start with the people who make our children "smarter."
    You wonder why there is litle corollary between spending and education quality as it is, it's because we're not using the money effectively, of course.
    How do we use the money effectively? Pay money for better teachers.
    "I mean, everybody should have access to medical care. And, you know, it shouldn't be such a big deal."
    -Dr. Paul Farmer

  8. #18
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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob N View Post
    I agree with you on that, but one must remember that most likely one is going to see both parents working nowadays--regardless if they're blue collar or white.

    I always thought that tech high schools are in the near future--sometimes I actually wonder why they're not commonplace by now. And there are plenty of kids that go to school just to stand outside and smoke cigarettes. GEDS are in their future.


    I see nothing wrong with segregating the "trouble makers" out of the main stream and allowing those that are at least non disruptive to remain.

    Treating the bullies and the disruptive as if they are not hurting everyone else is a recipe for failure and we are baking that failure into the results.

    This also will give the teachers a useful tool to use that is not corporal punishment and could easily be conducted like progressive discipline in any union setting to weed out the disaffected with prior notice and ample warning.
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Both parents in the workplace is not a valid reason for abandoning their kids education and lives. Not being argumentative...just sayin. And I agree about the GED thing...I think we could do everyone a tremendous service by speeding that process along. Reduce class sizes by getting rid of those that dont want to be there. Dont force butts in seats...make it a privilege to stay there.

    The thing is...it SOUNDS mean and uncaring, but really its just the opposite.


    All of the subsidies for education are based only on butts in the seats.

    Your recipe is a penalty to those who would make the policies to guide improvement and the prescription you recommend means they would be cutting their own throats.

    That 's our job as citizens.
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

  10. #20
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    Re: Do you think there is a correlation between teacher pay and quality of education?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    It is hard to say, if there an immediate correlation. If you increase the income of a profession, however, you find the quality of people who enter the profession rises.


    That is not correct. All this does in increase the pay of the people who enter the profession.
    I am not of the mind that a man is either of science or of religion. At his best and his worst, man exists in the misty glimmering where the falling angel meets the rising ape. That he chooses a direction from that point defines him as human.

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