View Poll Results: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

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  • Economic Detriment Argument

    18 36.00%
  • Moral Argument

    10 20.00%
  • Hardship Argument

    9 18.00%
  • I Said So Argument

    1 2.00%
  • Waste Encouragement Argument

    10 20.00%
  • I don't agree with any of these arguments.

    21 42.00%
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Thread: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

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    What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    Below is a list of six popular arguments against the implementation of higher taxes:

    Economic Detriment Argument
    Every dollar spent in taxes is a dollar not spent elsewhere. Individuals spend their money on products and services that they need or wat. This forces the market to adapt to the demands of the populace. Even one dollar influences the cost of goods, the amount of goods available, the reluctance or willingness of entrepreneurs to pursue investment, the quality of goods and a consumer's decision to go without certain goods. A one percent tax increase manipulates the economy by x dollars. In theory that much money could be the difference between the existence or non-existence of a whole industry.

    Moral Argument
    Many people oppose tax increases for no reason whatsoever. They jsut feel it in their gut that a tax increase is the wrong way to go. This uncomfortable feeling is justifiable once you analyze how taxes are collected. You are required to give the government a portion of your money not because you made an agreement to do so. You must simply pay because the government told you so. This is a perversion of the master/servant relationship. The government is servant to the people. Taxation causes the roles to flip in the opposite direction. If your taxes are not paid the government can force the sale of your home to collect these taxes, they can report the lien to credit reporting agencies or place you in jail for contempt of a court order. The government probably will not do these things because they don't want to bring to light this moral argument. The lower the tax rate is, the closer your government is to being morally pure. None of us are 100% morally pure. We don't expect our government to be either but it is good practice to keep it from getting to easy to do the wrong thing. The reason tax increases make you feel bad is because taxes are bad. You should trust your gut.

    Hardship Argument
    This argument is similar to the economic detriment argument but implies that a tax increase forces citizens to forego basic necessities in order to pay their taxes. This is the weakest argument against tax increases but the most commonly used.

    I Said So Argument
    This is the strongest case against tax increases but the least comfortable to invoke. Citizens elect their government by voting. In essence you are to receive the representation for your values. You can be oposed to tax increases without debate, without argument, without discussion, without explanation and without reason. The citizens are the master. The government is the servant and must submit to the master's demands regardless of their reasoning.

    Waste Encouragement Argument
    A tax increase is the politically expedient way to avoid discussion about uncomfortable budget decisions. It takes a lot of courage to cut out unnecessary waste in government. This is especially the case in local government. This could require firing your uncle, aunt, brother, sister, son, daughter, neighbor or even your spouse. Once the tax increase is implemented a big sigh of relief is felt by government employees and government officials. Those people vested in government waste are more heavily involved in politics than those who are dead set against tax increases. A tax increase can be easily forgotten. A budget cut will be remembered for decades by supporters and opponents. An increase in revenue reassures those in top government positions that they have a weak ally that will submit to any demands that they may come up with in the future. The message to government employees is very clear. Continue operating with complacency. A tax increase discourages practices of frugality by all parties involved. Reduce the revenue and the spending cuts will be forced to fall in line.

    Vote on your favorite argument.

    vasuderatorrent

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    Re: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    Below is a list of six popular arguments against the implementation of higher taxes:

    Economic Detriment Argument
    Every dollar spent in taxes is a dollar not spent elsewhere. Individuals spend their money on products and services that they need or wat. This forces the market to adapt to the demands of the populace. Even one dollar influences the cost of goods, the amount of goods available, the reluctance or willingness of entrepreneurs to pursue investment, the quality of goods and a consumer's decision to go without certain goods. A one percent tax increase manipulates the economy by x dollars. In theory that much money could be the difference between the existence or non-existence of a whole industry.

    Moral Argument
    Many people oppose tax increases for no reason whatsoever. They jsut feel it in their gut that a tax increase is the wrong way to go. This uncomfortable feeling is justifiable once you analyze how taxes are collected. You are required to give the government a portion of your money not because you made an agreement to do so. You must simply pay because the government told you so. This is a perversion of the master/servant relationship. The government is servant to the people. Taxation causes the roles to flip in the opposite direction. If your taxes are not paid the government can force the sale of your home to collect these taxes, they can report the lien to credit reporting agencies or place you in jail for contempt of a court order. The government probably will not do these things because they don't want to bring to light this moral argument. The lower the tax rate is, the closer your government is to being morally pure. None of us are 100% morally pure. We don't expect our government to be either but it is good practice to keep it from getting to easy to do the wrong thing. The reason tax increases make you feel bad is because taxes are bad. You should trust your gut.

    Hardship Argument
    This argument is similar to the economic detriment argument but implies that a tax increase forces citizens to forego basic necessities in order to pay their taxes. This is the weakest argument against tax increases but the most commonly used.

    I Said So Argument
    This is the strongest case against tax increases but the least comfortable to invoke. Citizens elect their government by voting. In essence you are to receive the representation for your values. You can be oposed to tax increases without debate, without argument, without discussion, without explanation and without reason. The citizens are the master. The government is the servant and must submit to the master's demands regardless of their reasoning.

    Waste Encouragement Argument
    A tax increase is the politically expedient way to avoid discussion about uncomfortable budget decisions. It takes a lot of courage to cut out unnecessary waste in government. This is especially the case in local government. This could require firing your uncle, aunt, brother, sister, son, daughter, neighbor or even your spouse. Once the tax increase is implemented a big sigh of relief is felt by government employees and government officials. Those people vested in government waste are more heavily involved in politics than those who are dead set against tax increases. A tax increase can be easily forgotten. A budget cut will be remembered for decades by supporters and opponents. An increase in revenue reassures those in top government positions that they have a weak ally that will submit to any demands that they may come up with in the future. The message to government employees is very clear. Continue operating with complacency. A tax increase discourages practices of frugality by all parties involved. Reduce the revenue and the spending cuts will be forced to fall in line.

    Vote on your favorite argument.

    vasuderatorrent
    I didn't vote. I'm not against higher taxes. Where I live the 'no taxes' mantra has led to kids selling chocolates in the neighbourhood so they can have band instruments in their school and to hours-long waits in local hospital ER's.
    "I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid people. I meant that stupid people are generally Conservatives."
    -John Stuart Mill-

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    Re: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    I didn't vote. I'm not against higher taxes. Where I live the 'no taxes' mantra has led to kids selling chocolates in the neighbourhood so they can have band instruments in their school and to hours-long waits in local hospital ER's.
    I think the moral argument has been taken too far. Some taxes are necessary to accomodate a society this isn't 100% morally pure. The less moral we become the more taxes that become necessary. There is certainly room for debate in the moral argument. Here is a sign of hope though.

    When taxes get too low there is always somebody willing to jump in to remedy the problem.

    When taxes get too high there is always somebody willing to jump in to remedy the problem.

    I think at the federal government level taxes are too low if we want to continue with the services that we currently have. My taxation arguments were inspired by my 2012 candidacy for a local county wide office and my future run in 2016.

    vasuderatorrent

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    Re: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    When taxes are cut the entire nation suffers.
    Taxes need to go up.
    Especially for the wealthiest and big corporations.

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    Re: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    I think the moral argument has been taken too far. Some taxes are necessary to accomodate a society this isn't 100% morally pure. The less moral we become the more taxes that become necessary. There is certainly room for debate in the moral argument. Here is a sign of hope though.

    When taxes get too low there is always somebody willing to jump in to remedy the problem.

    When taxes get too high there is always somebody willing to jump in to remedy the problem.

    I think at the federal government level taxes are too low if we want to continue with the services that we currently have. My taxation arguments were inspired by my 2012 candidacy for a local county wide office and my future run in 2016.

    vasuderatorrent
    Well first of all, it doesn't make much sense to fight immorality with further immorality. It's essentially saying my immorally is superior to your immorality, when the fact remains your both immoral. Second, there is a such thing as voluntary taxation such as user fees and the lottery that are entirely in line with the rights of people.

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    Re: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    When taxes are cut the entire nation suffers.
    Taxes need to go up.
    Especially for the wealthiest and big corporations.
    Why is it that when you buy a service from the market all people are charged the same price no matter if they are poor, middle class, or wealthy, but when the government taxes people the rates are different depending on your income? Why is the services valued differently depending on the individuals income?

    Btw, this is an economic question, so don't answer it in terms of fairness, and I do have a rebuttal to any arguments that rely on the individuals ability to pay.
    Last edited by Henrin; 10-27-13 at 02:35 AM.

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    Re: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    I didn't vote. I'm not against higher taxes. Where I live the 'no taxes' mantra has led to kids selling chocolates in the neighbourhood so they can have band instruments in their school and to hours-long waits in local hospital ER's.
    Actually, those problems are caused by unnecessary spending on things of a lower priority. Governments are very poor at prioritizing, and sending them new money doesn't result in spending on the things you think most important. It results in spending on things they find most advantageous to their reelection.

    The fact that politicians use taxpayer money as de facto campaign funds is another threat to democracy that needs to be dealt with. It is the primary reason for the 95% reelect rate in Congress. You can't grapple with campaign finance reform without grappling with the use of taxpayer funds to win votes. Challengers, even challengers with a billion dollars, just can't compete with that.

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    Re: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    Economic detriment is the argument of choice about tax policy.

    Interesting article that has probably been posted elsewhere around here:

    Modern Monetary Theory Means We Shouldn't Have A Progressive Tax System - Forbes

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    Re: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Why is it that when you buy a service from the market all people are charged the same price no matter if they are poor, middle class, or wealthy, but when the government taxes people the rates are different depending on your income? Why is the services valued differently depending on the individuals income?

    Btw, this is an economic question, so don't answer it in terms of fairness, and I do have a rebuttal to any arguments that rely on the individuals ability to pay.
    If a person making $15,000 a year were asked to pay 33% of his income in taxes they would take home only 10,000, putting them well under the poverty line. They could not afford a mortgage, a car or anything but the basest level of subsistence goods.
    If a person making $500,000 is asked to pay 33% of their income in taxes they will take home about $400,000 because their tax lawyers will find loopholes, hedge funds, off shore tax havens, tax dodge investments and deductions. They will still live in a mansion drive a luxury car and never know what it means to not have the basic necessities of life, even if they did have to pay $166,000.
    A flat tax sounds fine until we look at the economic impact it would have on real people in a real economy.
    Last edited by Buck Ewer; 10-27-13 at 03:46 AM.

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    Re: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    The OP is a good example of a "push poll" for not increasing taxes. For each of the OPs listed rational for not increasing taxes there is missing is a counter rational for increasing taxes. The poll is invalid and I voted for the last option on that basis.

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