View Poll Results: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

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  • Economic Detriment Argument

    18 36.00%
  • Moral Argument

    10 20.00%
  • Hardship Argument

    9 18.00%
  • I Said So Argument

    1 2.00%
  • Waste Encouragement Argument

    10 20.00%
  • I don't agree with any of these arguments.

    21 42.00%
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Thread: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

  1. #31
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    Re: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Actually, if it is based on feelings, it is not a moral argument. Morality is a system of rules.
    No. Morality is a sense of what is right and what is wrong. Sometimes rules are based on that ... more often than not rules are based on what is best for the folks making the rules.

  2. #32
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    Re: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    In addition to that, there's a simple consideration of effectiveness: after certain level, taxes become counter-productive, as the source of revenue. They inhibit economic activity to the point where overall take in the next round is lower, not higher. Of course, the break point is very difficult to establish - we just know that it exists.
    .
    You seem to be referring to the Laffer curve of conservative tax theory.
    In practice the tax cuts of the Bush Jr administration that ( according to Laffer) should have produced higher revenues, had the opposite effect and are largely responsible for the towering debt we now operate under. The curve was drawn by Laffer in an almost linear bell curve, but practical study shows that it is anything but linear. Millionaires did not stop making millions in the 1960s when tax brackets were as high as 90%. The Laffer curve would have predicted that J Paul Getty would shut down all his oil dericks and closed up shop when approaching that tax rate.
    He didn't.
    Other studies show that if the extremes of the Laffer curve are realized commerce does not stop at near 100% taxation as the supply siders predicted, but will shift instead to a barter based economy and continue to thrive.
    Taxes on the wealthy were raised under the Clinton administration and revenues soared.
    Current income tax rates are lower than they were in the 1950s for wealthy people. No one will close up shop if they are asked to pay the rates they did when Reagan took office and those rates will solve our current fiscal problems.
    It is a myth that higher taxes creates lower revenues unless we get well over 90% for the top bracket. We are a long way from that now at 35%.
    Last edited by Buck Ewer; 10-27-13 at 08:25 AM.

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    Re: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I typically see it a different way. The biggest argument against raising taxes is that our government has shown that they are irresponsible with the money they have, so why should we be giving them more of it? By raising taxes you're rewarding politicians for doing horrible jobs, and that's not the way you handle things in the real world. If your teenage kid were in massive credit card debt and couldn't live within their means, you wouldn't think the solution would be giving him/her more money.
    You wouldn't think the solution would be to stop paying the credit card bill either ...but that seems to be what much of the republicon house wants to do.

  4. #34
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    Re: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    You wouldn't think the solution would be to stop paying the credit card bill either ...but that seems to be what much of the republicon house wants to do.
    I don't recall anybody saying we should just stop paying our bills, but rather to cut spending. The responsible thing would be to balance the budget so that we spend less than we take in, so that we could start paying off the debt we've collected.

    Seriously though, tell me, why do politicians who can't handle the finances they have now deserve MORE money and MORE power? You really think giving them more money will make them start acting responsibly with it? Or do you think maybe they'll do the same things they've ALWAYS done with more money and spend more?

    Come on, you're progressive, so you should believe that you subsidize the things you want and tax the things you don't want. So if we subsidize piss poor financial management, what do we get?
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  5. #35
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    Re: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    Very impressive argument in such few words. I like it. Now you might see why I don't like the fact that I am not obligated to pay taxes. It really weakens my capacity to debate. Debating is one of my favorite things to do.

    vasuderatorrent
    Sometimes less is more. Why do I feel like I'm arguing for a flat tax? lol


    Without getting too personal, why aren't you obligated to pay taxes?

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    Re: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I don't recall anybody saying we should just stop paying our bills, but rather to cut spending.
    The debt ceiling ... their refusal to raise it is exactly that, refusing to pay the bills on what they have already spent.
    It is like throwing the credit card bills in the trash after you have spent money you didn't have.
    The republicon history of spending and cutting taxes is indeed irresponsible. We should be thankful that the Obama administration is cutting spending and trying to raise taxes to undo those irresponsibilities.
    Many republicon members of congress who want to default on our bills and shut down the US government voted for the unfunded Iraq war, medicare B and Bush's tax cuts. We can't undo the war and part B is here to stay but taxes can still be raised. You can only cut so much before you do more harm than good. To reach the sought after balance taxes on the wealthy must be raised.

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    Re: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasuderatorrent View Post
    What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    .... six popular arguments against the implementation of higher taxes:
    Actually taxes are very good in that they optimize the economic system and achieve the highest possible welfare for society.

    The caveat is that this is only the case, when the government is restricted to producing, what economists call "public goods". As our government gets involved in other costly activities the taxes associated are detrimental to public welfare.

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    Re: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    The debt ceiling ... their refusal to raise it is exactly that, refusing to pay the bills on what they have already spent.
    It is like throwing the credit card bills in the trash after you have spent money you didn't have.
    The republicon history of spending and cutting taxes is indeed irresponsible. We should be thankful that the Obama administration is cutting spending and trying to raise taxes to undo those irresponsibilities.
    Many republicon members of congress who want to default on our bills and shut down the US government voted for the unfunded Iraq war, medicare B and Bush's tax cuts. We can't undo the war and part B is here to stay but taxes can still be raised. You can only cut so much before you do more harm than good. To reach the sought after balance taxes on the wealthy must be raised.
    I'm not a republican, and I don't like them either, so I don't particularly care to have a "he did, she did" argument with you. Fact is, our politicians can't keep a budget (democrats and republicans), and the worst solution possible is to reward them with more money to mismanage.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  9. #39
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    Re: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    If there were a cogent argument here I would be glad to debate it. I am defending the reasons for a progressive income tax and you are rambling on about commodities values, liberals and libertarians.
    Sorry, you make no sense.
    Well, you see, they used the argument I argued against to suggest that the higher rates were warranted on more than the simplistic and rather apparent argument that the rich had more money and thus could afford more. That argument alone wouldn't actually lead someone to believe that the rich should be taxed more, but simply that what all can afford should be considered. Meaning, your argument doesn't work, and doesn't lead me to support progressive taxation, but simply lower rates. There is simply no reason suggested in your argument to run from one rate applied to all.
    Last edited by Henrin; 10-27-13 at 09:16 AM.

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    Re: What is your favorite argument against higher taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Actually taxes are very good in that they optimize the economic system and achieve the highest possible welfare for society.

    The caveat is that this is only the case, when the government is restricted to producing, what economists call "public goods". As our government gets involved in other costly activities the taxes associated are detrimental to public welfare.
    You should pay more taxes then, right? Got to optimize and I think you should lead the charge.

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