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Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

  • Total voters
    83
  • Poll closed .
Zyphlin said:
I have no issue with the laws themselves, but think they should only exist if there is a free government photo ID available in that state. However, if no such avenue exists then I believe it's unreasonable as it essentially demands payment for the ability to vote.
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Therein lies the problem. The moment voter ID get made a nationwide thing, they will be used as a bargaining chip by one party or the other - wait? Another tax on guns? Fine. We'll also raise voter ID fees. Wait? Another budget cut? Fine. We'll lower the fee for voter IDs - and so on and so forth with everything else. I think a far more reasonable solution is a birth certificate registry with images updated every 4 years. Citizens will simply give in their social security number, and the registry will show their birth certificate and picture. Easier, cheaper, and less bureaucratic than voter ID laws and the necessary paperwork that comes with them.
 
MaggieD said:
I'm curious to know how many people don't have a valid photo identification. How does one open a bank account without a valid I.D.? It can't be done. Cash a check at a currency exchange? At a bank? It can't be done. Sign up for welfare? God!! I hope! it can't be done. Buy a house? Can't be done. Open a charge account? Can't be done. Sign up for Social Security? Can't be done.

Who are these people who don't have photo identification? And how are they living their lives?
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You work under the presumption that people without valid IDs have all those things. Walk around the nearest ghetto/trailer park and ask them if they have bank loans, mortgages, charge accounts and all those other things you are supposed to have with a valid ID.
 
Cyrylek said:
In some cultures, people believe that taking a photograph of your face steals your soul. Representatives of these cultures who happen to be American citizens will be severely disenfranchised.
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Then I hope the people in those cultures plan to never fly in an airplane, or travel outside of US borders. Seriously, unless one was raised in a South American rain forest, this is not a legitimate excuse for refusing to have a photo I.D.
 
Hatuey said:
Therein lies the problem. The moment voter ID get made a nationwide thing, they will be used as a bargaining chip by one party or the other - wait? Another tax on guns? Fine. We'll also raise voter ID fees. Wait? Another budget cut? Fine. We'll lower the fee for voter IDs - and so on and so forth with everything else. I think a far more reasonable solution is a birth certificate registry with images updated every 4 years. Citizens will simply give in their social security number, and the registry will show their birth certificate and picture. Easier, cheaper, and less bureaucratic than voter ID laws and the necessary paperwork that comes with them.
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Such a thing never occurred to me, but frankly it might be absolutely brilliant. I must give this some thought. Damn, the stuff I learn here... :lol:
 
DiAnna said:
Such a thing never occurred to me, but frankly it might be absolutely brilliant. I must give this some thought. Damn, the stuff I learn here... :lol:
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Would you believe me if I said I thought it out as I was writing the post?
 
Hatuey said:
Would you believe me if I said I thought it out as I was writing the post?
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Yes, lol, I would! I have no clue if it would be logistically possible, but on paper it is a swell idea! :lol:
 
DiAnna said:
Yes, lol, I would! I have no clue if it would be logistically possible, but on paper it is a swell idea! :lol:
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I don't really see why not. It's absolutely insane that I can get my credit checked over the phone and my financial situation is available to anybody who can use Equifax, but somehow there isn't a registry for birth certificates that can be updated by showing up at a local DMV/Hospital/SS office or similar institutions. Think of it, just being able to give your SS number, answer 2-3 personal questions (number of children, name of parents etc) and then being confirmed as being who you say you are with a digitally stored picture as a second protection from fraud.
 
DiAnna said:
Then I hope the people in those cultures plan to never fly in an airplane, or travel outside of US borders. Seriously, unless one was raised in a South American rain forest, this is not a legitimate excuse for refusing to have a photo I.D.
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Ahm, it was not exactly a serious post....
 
Juanita said:
How about college students who, in some states, are no longer allowed to use their college IDs to vote? Do you think that they carry their birth certificates in their back pocket? In some crazy places you need an ID to get an ID..
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Well, you don't have to be a citizen in order to have a college ID, right?

But I agree with previous posters that if valid voter IDs are required for voting, they should be provided free of charge (unlike driving a car or attending a college, voting is a constitutional right of every citizen). Which leads to the question of cost-effectiveness. Is there really enough fraud going on to justify the expense? Which we will not really know until we institute a solid system of verification. Catch-22.
 
Cyrylek said:
Well, you don't have to be a citizen in order to have a college ID, right?

But I agree with previous posters that if valid voter IDs are required for voting, they should be provided free of charge (unlike driving a car or attending a college, voting is a constitutional right of every citizen). Which leads to the question of cost-effectiveness. Is there really enough fraud going on to justify the expense? Which we will not really know until we institute a solid system of verification. Catch-22.
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College ID's was on the list of valid photo ID's here in Georgia. Photo ID's are offered free here to. Proof of citizenship and residence are supposedly required at registration, but that is another topic for another day. The photo ID is just to prove that you are the one who is registered that is voting in your name. Georgia's photo ID law was one of a very few that wasn't challenged.

One of the reasons Georgia started it was that in the 2002 election my neighbor went to vote in the afternoon only to find out someone had voted in her name already in the morning. That woke up some peoples eyes down here in my county as she wasn't the only one who went to vote only to find out someone else had voted in their place.
 
Perotista said:
College ID's was on the list of valid photo ID's here in Georgia. Photo ID's are offered free here to. Proof of citizenship and residence are supposedly required at registration, but that is another topic for another day. The photo ID is just to prove that you are the one who is registered that is voting in your name. Georgia's photo ID law was one of a very few that wasn't challenged.

One of the reasons Georgia started it was that in the 2002 election my neighbor went to vote in the afternoon only to find out someone had voted in her name already in the morning. That woke up some peoples eyes down here in my county as she wasn't the only one who went to vote only to find out someone else had voted in their place.
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Mornin Pero. :2wave: I also thought another problem area was with Colleges and Kids registering to vote there and voting back in their home state. Which wasn't there a list out on that?
 
Cyrylek said:
Well, you don't have to be a citizen in order to have a college ID, right?

But I agree with previous posters that if valid voter IDs are required for voting, they should be provided free of charge (unlike driving a car or attending a college, voting is a constitutional right of every citizen). Which leads to the question of cost-effectiveness. Is there really enough fraud going on to justify the expense? Which we will not really know until we institute a solid system of verification. Catch-22.
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I'm not quite sure I buy the whole "cost" argument against Voter ID's.

Every state in the union already has the infrastructure in place to handle State ID's through their DMV. We're not talking creating a new system because one is already in place. Check you DMV website and you will find that the issue the various types of Drivers Licenses, but they also issue non-driver ID's.

Voter ID's should be "free" (there is no such thing as "free", but at no cost to the voter) as long as the ID is for (a) voting only, (b) the individual is below the poverty line, and (c) there is no other need for a fee based ID. For example if you are getting a Drivers License to drive there is a fee - since you would then have a Drivers License you don't qualify for a second "free" State ID.


The idea that you shouldn't have to prove eligibility to vote (as in Citizenship, age, residency, etc.) at the time of registration and who you are at the time of casting a ballot seems like common sense to me.

I would even (if I were setting the standards for the cards) have a filed "Vote = Yes" or "Vote = No", there are valid reasons that an alien could be legal and not be eligible to vote. That should be indicated on the ID. (Of course illegal aliens shouldn't be getting a state issued legal ID but that is a topic for another thread.)



>>>>
 
MMC said:
Mornin Pero. :2wave: I also thought another problem area was with Colleges and Kids registering to vote there and voting back in their home state. Which wasn't there a list out on that?
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I do not think the list was on double voting as you stated. I think the problem was the student had a home of record in other states. Then registered in the state they were going to college in. They did this in order to vote and were not really legal residents of the state they were going to college in. There was a big whoopie do over it with most democrats saying they were being disinfranchised. But all they had to do was request an absentee ballot from the state in which they legally resided. Either that with all the early voting, go back home and vote. No one was taking their vote away from them, they were just too lazy to drop a request for an absentee ballot in the mail.
 
Perotista said:
I do not think the list was on double voting as you stated. I think the problem was the student had a home of record in other states. Then registered in the state they were going to college in. They did this in order to vote and were not really legal residents of the state they were going to college in. There was a big whoopie do over it with most democrats saying they were being disinfranchised. But all they had to do was request an absentee ballot from the state in which they legally resided. Either that with all the early voting, go back home and vote. No one was taking their vote away from them, they were just too lazy to drop a request for an absentee ballot in the mail.
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Yeah that was it.....not double voting. Out of residency.....like you said. It was an easy matter to deal with.
 
MMC said:
Well it should.....considering the Jacksons live out of DC and have for years. Even with his OL lady being a Councilwoman.
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No it really shouldn't they meet the residency requirements even if you don't think they do. I'm pretty sure you could file complaints with the local magistrate if you were that concerned about their residency qualifications.
 
Cyrylek said:
In some cultures, people believe that taking a photograph of your face steals your soul. Representatives of these cultures who happen to be American citizens will be severely disenfranchised.
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they won't be able to fly, get passports or buy guns either. If you believe stuff that stupid you probably shouldn't vote or own guns or be on airplanes
 
Muhammed said:
I have no problem with a voter ID requirement under 2 conditions.

1) They're free of charge.

2) Warrant checks are outlawed at places that issue the ID cards.

Here in Ohio the only place where you can obtain an official state ID is at the DMV. And all of the branches of the DMV where they give drivers license examinations are staffed by police officers. If you go to one of these places to get an ID and you have a warrant, even if it is for some small fine you couldn't pay a decade ago, you're not getting any ID. You're getting arrested on the spot and going directly to jail, period. I've seen it happen.

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I think it is pretty obvious that doing warrant checks when people try to get an ID to vote disenfranchises the poor who are much more likely to be unable to pay a fine.
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As it should, if you are that god damn stupid there should be a penalty
 
Nynaeve Meara said:
No it really shouldn't they meet the residency requirements even if you don't think they do. I'm pretty sure you could file complaints with the local magistrate if you were that concerned about their residency qualifications.
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Well it wasn't so much me.....more like some of the more notable Chicago Alderman who actually live in their district with their people. Guess that's one the Democrats can take up with themselves, huh?
 
I prefer a National ID, instead of state by state drivers liscenses - hardened, and with biometrics (essentially tamper proof)..but that's another thread.

Yes - require ID but 1. free to the indigent 2. free transporation to get it for those whom need it.

Voting is a right, not a privledge like driving, so any impediments must be removed if an ID is a requirement of voting
 
ocean515 said:
Well, the billing behind Obamacare is to provide healthcare to all. Since it seems people are opposed to voter ID because of the multitudes who will be disenfranchied due to the effort required to obtain the documents, what about ID required to get Obamacare coverage?

It's going to be critical for people to get the right kind of care, and that means medical staff must be very precise about the kind of care they provide, and the kind of medications that would be used. The only way to do that is to make sure the ID of the person receiving care is known without any doubt.

How are these people going to provide proper, and critically important ID, if it's impossible for them to do so for something so simple as voting?
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I see. From what I understand Obamacare does not require those who let their driver's licenses lapse get then reinstated because use public transportation and have no cars, have direct deposit and don't want to spend the additional money or hassle with rounding up extensive documentation in compliance with the Real ID Act as some states try to do in order to vote in 2012. What Obamacare does is require people to have private health insurance. I have health insurance and I don't remember having to show my insurance company an original (no photo copies allowed) copy of my birth certificate issued by the state where I was born, my social security card plus a passport issued by the State Department, a military ID or soon to expire driver's license and if a married female a copy of her marriage license. I don't recall providing any ID to my insurance company. I might have but I don't recall it. Good question.
 
"Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?"

It most certainly is. There is no reason on earth why a person who has voted all their lives being denied doing their civic duty. The argument of free photo ID's doesn't fly because it take time and money to get to the place where they are issued. Besides it very difficult for invalids and the elderly to travel.

In my state of Oregon we have vote by mail and all that is required is your signature on the envelope that contains your ballot. Each and every ballot is checked against the signature on the registration.
 
pbrauer said:
"Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?"

It most certainly is. There is no reason on earth why a person who has voted all their lives being denied doing their civic duty. The argument of free photo ID's doesn't fly because it take time and money to get to the place where they are issued. Besides it very difficult for invalids and the elderly to travel.

In my state of Oregon we have vote by mail and all that is required is your signature on the envelope that contains your ballot. Each and every ballot is checked against the signature on the registration.
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In my state, you show your license or some other ID unless the poll workers know you and then you sign by your name
 
pbrauer said:
"Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?"

It most certainly is. There is no reason on earth why a person who has voted all their lives being denied doing their civic duty. The argument of free photo ID's doesn't fly because it take time and money to get to the place where they are issued. Besides it very difficult for invalids and the elderly to travel.

In my state of Oregon we have vote by mail and all that is required is your signature on the envelope that contains your ballot. Each and every ballot is checked against the signature on the registration.
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Which, while convenient, is child's play to forge. We've done a bit recently to tighten up registration, but it's still a loosey goosey system.

And it's your argument against photo IDs that doesn't comport with the reality that people already have them for the multitude of other reasons they need them, including and especially the "invalids and the elderly".
 
clownboy said:
Which, while convenient, is child's play to forge. We've done a bit recently to tighten up registration, but it's still a loosey goosey system.

And it's your argument against photo IDs that doesn't comport with the reality that people already have them for the multitude of other reasons they need them, including and especially the "invalids and the elderly".
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They may be easy to forge, but I assure you paying the $10K fine and possible jail time if caught is not quite as easy.
 
MMC said:
Well it wasn't so much me.....more like some of the more notable Chicago Alderman who actually live in their district with their people. Guess that's one the Democrats can take up with themselves, huh?
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Its no different than the many GOP people who claim a home state but don't actually reside there to avoid tax laws. Which is very common in the Midwest. After all if you don't cheat on your residency taxes what is the point of being part of the GOP? ;)
 
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