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Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?


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DaveFagan

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Naughty Nuns, Bad Bankers and Ballot Bandits

Naughty Nuns, Bad Bankers and Ballot Bandits

Naughty Nuns, Bad Bankers and Ballot Bandits

"On May 6, 2008, 12 fraudulent voters, dressed as nuns, attempted to cast ballots in the presidential primary in Indiana.Luckilyof them were caught, stopped cold by Indiana's new voter photo ID law. The law had been found to be constitutional by Federal Judge Richard Posner of the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals.
It turns out the nuns that Posner's ruling turned away were, in fact, nuns. All the sisters had photo driver's licenses, but they had expired (the licenses, not the nuns). The Sisters of the Holy Cross, had, mercifully, given up driving (they were pushing 90 years of age.)
It was a cute story that ran nationwide. What wasn't so cute, and ran nowhere in the US press, was that 72,000 black voters were blocked at the polls by this Posner-blessed photo ID law."
"
In his newly released autobiography, the aging Posner, hearing the wings of mortality and the gavel of Judgment Day coming down, admits that he was stone cold wrong. Posner now concedes that that the voter ID rule was a Republican partisan ploy in intent and viciously racist in practice.
Posner, seeking forgiveness, says it wasn't his fault. He wasn't "really given strong indications that requiring additional voter identification would actually disfranchise people [who are] entitled to vote.""

Are these really Jim Crow laws?

Is this a voter disenfranchisement scheme?

Are these type laws partisan?

Excepting graveyards voting for LBJ in the 1960s, has this been a problem?

How many cases of voter fraud have been prosecuted in your neighborhood?
 
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Naughty Nuns, Bad Bankers and Ballot Bandits

Naughty Nuns, Bad Bankers and Ballot Bandits

Naughty Nuns, Bad Bankers and Ballot Bandits

"On May 6, 2008, 12 fraudulent voters, dressed as nuns, attempted to cast ballots in the presidential primary in Indiana.Luckilyof them were caught, stopped cold by Indiana's new voter photo ID law. The law had been found to be constitutional by Federal Judge Richard Posner of the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals.
It turns out the nuns that Posner's ruling turned away were, in fact, nuns. All the sisters had photo driver's licenses, but they had expired (the licenses, not the nuns). The Sisters of the Holy Cross, had, mercifully, given up driving (they were pushing 90 years of age.)
It was a cute story that ran nationwide. What wasn't so cute, and ran nowhere in the US press, was that 72,000 black voters were blocked at the polls by this Posner-blessed photo ID law."
"
In his newly released autobiography, the aging Posner, hearing the wings of mortality and the gavel of Judgment Day coming down, admits that he was stone cold wrong. Posner now concedes that that the voter ID rule was a Republican partisan ploy in intent and viciously racist in practice.
Posner, seeking forgiveness, says it wasn't his fault. He wasn't "really given strong indications that requiring additional voter identification would actually disfranchise people [who are] entitled to vote.""

Are these really Jim Crow laws?

Is this a voter disenfranchisement scheme?

Are these type laws partisan?

Excepting graveyards voting for LBJ in the 1960s, has this been a problem?

How many cases of voter fraud have been prosecuted in your neighborhood?


How many cases of What.....Voter Fraud? Whats That.....No Such thing In Chicago and Illinois. Democrats rule here doncha knows. :lamo
 
How many cases of What.....Voter Fraud? Whats That.....No Such thing In Chicago and Illinois. Democrats rule here doncha knows. :lamo

Great red herring
 
In some cultures, people believe that taking a photograph of your face steals your soul. Representatives of these cultures who happen to be American citizens will be severely disenfranchised.
 
I have no problem with voter ID laws as long as the default position is allowing people to vote. Then, if it was fraudlent, arrest them and max out their sentence. The real issue isnt that the Republicans care a hoot about it, they too know there is really very little fraudlent voting, the thing is most of the people who have ID issues vote democrat. So it really is a RW attempt to stop Demo voters.
 
Great red herring

Pickled after over 75 years of it.....huh? "What".....ya don't like herring that ****, huh?

Shame.....the left needs to start hearing it more. Guess what.....They going to and a whole lot more. Might as well prepare to get use to it. ;)
 
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I honestly believe that the intent of these laws is to do partisan disenfranchisement. It can be used by Repubs or Dems and is about who is controlling local politics. It would be disproportionately biased against low income voters. The 10 nuns are an excellent example of flawed law. I also worry about corrupted code in the electronic voting process. Let's address that before we disenfranchise.
 
I have no problem with voter ID laws as long as the default position is allowing people to vote. Then, if it was fraudlent, arrest them and max out their sentence. The real issue isnt that the Republicans care a hoot about it, they too know there is really very little fraudlent voting, the thing is most of the people who have ID issues vote democrat. So it really is a RW attempt to stop Demo voters.

Really Mak.....even after ID's were made and at no cost. You mean Free identification.....was just to go and pick on people who vote Democrat. First it was about money.....now when given some more free ****. The reason is all because the Republicans know they vote Democrat. :roll:

Do you think all those refugees we take in that are spread out all over the country. Might have a piece of that action you are talking about? How about those that come in on workers permits and student visas? You know.....the people that the Democrats want to increase on in numbers.
 
most of the people who have ID issues vote democrat.

But WHY do they have ID issues? How difficult is it to get an ID? Certainly easier than to figure out who to vote for, or what some Proposal XYZ, version 13 on the ballot even means.
 
I have no issue with the laws themselves, but think they should only exist if there is a free government photo ID available in that state. However, if no such avenue exists then I believe it's unreasonable as it essentially demands payment for the ability to vote.

I also question the notions regarding the low number of voter fraud, as they generally look at provable instances of voter fraud while ignoring that based on the current requirements I'm unsure how plausible the notion of "proving" various types of fraud on a wide scale basis is.
 
But WHY do they have ID issues? How difficult is it to get an ID? Certainly easier than to figure out who to vote for, or what some Proposal XYZ, version 13 on the ballot even means.

I think you are Right when it comes to Native Americans.....I knew some that had IDs but none with any Pics. But that was years ago.
Wonder how that plays out for DLs?
 
The only valid objection against introducing voter ID requirement I can imagine is a combination of: (a) electoral fraud is not a significant problem, and (b) the measure will cost a lot of money (the IDs are provided to those who doesn't have them free of charge, naturally, to avoid a de facto poll tax situation).
 
These anti-VRA laws are disingenuous at best..
The devil is in the details..
Very few objections are from the ID itself..
The other 21st century Jim Crow laws are simply too numerous to state, and that's just for North Carolina, let alone Texas .
 
Naughty Nuns, Bad Bankers and Ballot Bandits

Naughty Nuns, Bad Bankers and Ballot Bandits

Naughty Nuns, Bad Bankers and Ballot Bandits

"On May 6, 2008, 12 fraudulent voters, dressed as nuns, attempted to cast ballots in the presidential primary in Indiana.Luckilyof them were caught, stopped cold by Indiana's new voter photo ID law. The law had been found to be constitutional by Federal Judge Richard Posner of the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals.
It turns out the nuns that Posner's ruling turned away were, in fact, nuns. All the sisters had photo driver's licenses, but they had expired (the licenses, not the nuns). The Sisters of the Holy Cross, had, mercifully, given up driving (they were pushing 90 years of age.)
It was a cute story that ran nationwide. What wasn't so cute, and ran nowhere in the US press, was that 72,000 black voters were blocked at the polls by this Posner-blessed photo ID law."
"
In his newly released autobiography, the aging Posner, hearing the wings of mortality and the gavel of Judgment Day coming down, admits that he was stone cold wrong. Posner now concedes that that the voter ID rule was a Republican partisan ploy in intent and viciously racist in practice.
Posner, seeking forgiveness, says it wasn't his fault. He wasn't "really given strong indications that requiring additional voter identification would actually disfranchise people [who are] entitled to vote.""

Are these really Jim Crow laws?

Is this a voter disenfranchisement scheme?

Are these type laws partisan?

Excepting graveyards voting for LBJ in the 1960s, has this been a problem?

How many cases of voter fraud have been prosecuted in your neighborhood?

I'm curious to know how many people don't have a valid photo identification. How does one open a bank account without a valid I.D.? It can't be done. Cash a check at a currency exchange? At a bank? It can't be done. Sign up for welfare? God!! I hope! it can't be done. Buy a house? Can't be done. Open a charge account? Can't be done. Sign up for Social Security? Can't be done.

Who are these people who don't have photo identification? And how are they living their lives?
 
The only valid objection against introducing voter ID requirement I can imagine is a combination of: (a) electoral fraud is not a significant problem, and (b) the measure will cost a lot of money (the IDs are provided to those who doesn't have them free of charge, naturally, to avoid a de facto poll tax situation).

Why do you suppose estimates from both political parties are that hundreds of thousands of mostly Democratic voters will be thrown off the rolls, purged, though they have legally voted in the past several decades, like the Rexas female Judge ?
 
It's nice that he is admitting his mistake. So many people will not do that.

With voter registration and the requirement to sign the voter log, why would you need a picture of yourself when you are standing right there? I'm pretty sure that we currently have a voter ID law (for the first time) here in Texas. In my DL photo I have a short haircut and a short small goatee. In person, my full beard and long hair bear no resemblance to that picture. A couple of months ago I was allowed by TSA to board a flight to Nebraska. I guess I'll be allowed to vote. But why do I need to show my ID? It makes no sense to me as people voting multiple times is a GOP myth.
 
But WHY do they have ID issues? How difficult is it to get an ID? Certainly easier than to figure out who to vote for, or what some Proposal XYZ, version 13 on the ballot even means.

It can be more difficult than you think. Even if it is free.

A few years back I needed to present my birth certificate to get a new social security card. They demanded a copy of my DL or State ID card. Now how does one get DL or state ID if they do not have a birth certificate to get the DL or state ID. Now for my birth certificate, they did have options, but a lot of the options would depend on having a stable address that the BC would be mailed to - and having copies of bills that were mailed to that address.

That being said, it took money to get my out of state birth certificate. And if I didn't have a state ID/DL in the first place and lacked a stable address, it would have been very difficult.

I have no problem with the ID as long as everyone that wants one can get one easily.

There are also a lot of assumptions about the accessibility of places to get IDs.

Many people make like it is just an issue of going to the DMV and getting your ID, but there is a bit more to it than that.

BTW, to get to the 2 closest DMVs in my area it is about 2-3 buses...and I live in a very well populated area. And I have a computer to research what I need.

I am not saying no to IDs, I am just saying that most of us posting on this board likely have lives that we individually would never come close to understanding how complex a seemingly simple task can be for someone of little means.
 
Naughty Nuns, Bad Bankers and Ballot Bandits

Naughty Nuns, Bad Bankers and Ballot Bandits

Naughty Nuns, Bad Bankers and Ballot Bandits

"On May 6, 2008, 12 fraudulent voters, dressed as nuns, attempted to cast ballots in the presidential primary in Indiana.Luckilyof them were caught, stopped cold by Indiana's new voter photo ID law. The law had been found to be constitutional by Federal Judge Richard Posner of the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals.
It turns out the nuns that Posner's ruling turned away were, in fact, nuns. All the sisters had photo driver's licenses, but they had expired (the licenses, not the nuns). The Sisters of the Holy Cross, had, mercifully, given up driving (they were pushing 90 years of age.)
It was a cute story that ran nationwide. What wasn't so cute, and ran nowhere in the US press, was that 72,000 black voters were blocked at the polls by this Posner-blessed photo ID law."
"
In his newly released autobiography, the aging Posner, hearing the wings of mortality and the gavel of Judgment Day coming down, admits that he was stone cold wrong. Posner now concedes that that the voter ID rule was a Republican partisan ploy in intent and viciously racist in practice.
Posner, seeking forgiveness, says it wasn't his fault. He wasn't "really given strong indications that requiring additional voter identification would actually disfranchise people [who are] entitled to vote.""

Are these really Jim Crow laws?

Is this a voter disenfranchisement scheme?

Are these type laws partisan?

Excepting graveyards voting for LBJ in the 1960s, has this been a problem?

How many cases of voter fraud have been prosecuted in your neighborhood?


I would normally say no but currently its a maybe and here's why.

1. A swing state Republican official testified under oath that the republican party in his state held party strategy meetings on measures that could be legally taken to limit minority voting. I think its fair to reason the various state GOP organizations have occasion to confer with one another to participate in national strategy pow wows. In 2012 in states where republican officials held power but with significant minority populations, NEW rules were enacted that just so happen to make registering to vote and voting itself, not impossible but disproportionally less convenient for MINORITIES.

2. The most common form of ID is a driver's license. However, today there is less of a practical necessity of having a driver's license.
- At one time, a driver's license was needed to cash checks - Toady most people have direct deposit.
- Major urban centers have adequate public transportation systems; subways, light rail, buses, etc. In Atlanta for example, MARTA promises to get commuters form any any point in the metro area to any point in the metro area within 1 mile in under 60 minutes. It just so happens major urban centers are made up of large minority populations and further, the people more likely to use public transportation than non-minorities.

3. For quite some time now but especially after 9/11, the federal government has been pushing for a national ID system, albeit unsuccessfully over "Big Brother" arguments. As a result of numerous failed attempts to roll out a national ID, the federal government got cleaver and decided to sneak it in under the radar by superimposing the National ID on an ID most people already had, their driver's license. The new joint Driver's License/National ID is called the Real ID. You may have heard of it. If you haven't done so recently, the next time you get your driver's license renewed you'll be required to present an assortment of documentation unusual to past driver's license renewal. In addition, you're fee to renew will be between $50 and $60, cost prohibitive for the poor.

If your check is directly deposited, you use public transportation and to renew you license you'll have to do without maybe as much food for a week; why bother? Its more likely the person making that decision is a minority.
 
I have little problem with voter ID law. People are required to have photo ID for lots of things in life today. Why should having a photo ID be a problem for something as important as voting?

How widespread voter fraud is really cannot be said. If there is no means of know if it occurs then how can you know if it does or not? To prove or disprove it would take tracking down every voter and checking that they indeed had lawfully voted. In states with large illegal populations, where even false ID is easily available to them, these laws may help. May even help prove that voter fraud is occurring. Is it a total solution, no. But until we get control of immigration, it is a step forwards.
 
I'm all for voter ID. When you leave the military they should issue you an ID. If you don't have one, you don't vote. Don't want to risk you life for your country, then why should you be allowed to vote for politicians to hand you out entitlements?
 
It depends on how much the ID costs, how easy it is to get one standard fare, and how easy it is to take advantage of free and/or discount ID programs. While it is customary here, our IDs are very cheap, nor are they currently required. We are also the only state in the union without voter registration.
 
I have no problem with voter ID requirements even if the eligible voter has to pay for the ID out of pocket.

Calling that a "poll tax" is retarded.

If we start playing that stupid game it never has to end.

Since very few eligible voters live next door to their polling place they require some sort of transportation to get to there.

Is the public required to reimburse me for the gas and the wear-and-tear on my vehicle when I drive over to vote?

They should be.

Placing an economic barrier like providing for my own transportation between me and the voting booth is a poll tax!!!!

What if I have to take a train, bus, or catch a cab?

Again, poll tax!!!

Walk you say?

Barefoot? In November?

You're out of your mind.

It's cold in November in the Northeast. I need shoes on my feet.

Paying for those shoes is a de facto poll tax!!!!

And besides, how do you expect me to walk all the way to the polling place on an empty stomach?

We're talking about a three mile hike here.

I need to eat a meal before I leave the house in order to have the energy to walk all the way there, up hill, both ways (possibly in the snow).

The cost of my breakfast?

Poll tax!!!!

I have poor eyesight and require glasses in order to read a ballot.

I don't have vision insurance and I can't afford to pay for a pair of eyeglasses.

If the public doesn't provide me with eyeglasses, free of charge, that's right - poll tax.

We can go on, and on, and on, and on.

This whole "poll tax" argument is stupid.

The cost of living in the modern world isn't a "poll tax".
 
I would normally say no but currently its a maybe and here's why.

1. A swing state Republican official testified under oath that the republican party in his state held party strategy meetings on measures that could be legally taken to limit minority voting. I think its fair to reason the various state GOP organizations have occasion to confer with one another to participate in national strategy pow wows. In 2012 in states where republican officials held power but with significant minority populations, NEW rules were enacted that just so happen to make registering to vote and voting itself, not impossible but disproportionally less convenient for MINORITIES.

2. The most common form of ID is a driver's license. However, today there is less of a practical necessity of having a driver's license.
- At one time, a driver's license was needed to cash checks - Toady most people have direct deposit.
- Major urban centers have adequate public transportation systems; subways, light rail, buses, etc. In Atlanta for example, MARTA promises to get commuters form any any point in the metro area to any point in the metro area within 1 mile in under 60 minutes. It just so happens major urban centers are made up of large minority populations and further, the people more likely to use public transportation than non-minorities.

3. For quite some time now but especially after 9/11, the federal government has been pushing for a national ID system, albeit unsuccessfully over "Big Brother" arguments. As a result of numerous failed attempts to roll out a national ID, the federal government got cleaver and decided to sneak it in under the radar by superimposing the National ID on an ID most people already had, their driver's license. The new joint Driver's License/National ID is called the Real ID. You may have heard of it. If you haven't done so recently, the next time you get your driver's license renewed you'll be required to present an assortment of documentation unusual to past driver's license renewal. In addition, you're fee to renew will be between $50 and $60, cost prohibitive for the poor.

If your check is directly deposited, you use public transportation and to renew you license you'll have to do without maybe as much food for a week; why bother? Its more likely the person making that decision is a minority.

Well there really shouldn't be any tampering by either side. But then you know its not played like that. Worse is When the Deed is done with knowledge and participation by the National Party Organization.

Gerrymanders Gone Wild.....

Florida Democrats coordinated with national party organizations and consultants in early 2012 to gerrymander congressional districts despite a state ban on such activities, emails obtained by the Washington Free Beacon show.

The top state and national party leaders, including Florida congressmen Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Ted Deutsch, and Alecee Hastings, signed off on the gerrymandered maps, according to the emails released during court discovery in Romo v. Scott, a legal challenge to redistricting maps that the GOP-controlled state legislature approved in 2012.

“For several months the Florida Democratic Party has engaged in a legal fight over redistricting in Florida,” Florida Democratic chair Rod Smith wrote to a representative of the Teamsters Union in March 2012. “We believe that Florida can be turned from red to blue if we are successful in our efforts.”

Redistricting maps produced by Democratic consulting firm NCEC Services were shared with attorneys at Perkins Coie, general counsel for the DNC, the emails show.

Those maps were then vetted by Smith, the DCCC, and Reps. Wasserman Schultz, Hastings, and Deutsch.

“Will speak with DWS tomorrow morning to clear it with her,” Charles Kelly, the DCCC’s southern regional political director, wrote in a March 2012 email. “Will make necessary calls tomorrow AM and DWS sign-off and we should be good!”

The maps were drawn up by party strategists to maximize Democratic performance in the state while hewing to recently passed amendments in Florida that prohibit gerrymandering.....snip~

Florida Democrats Collude to Gerrymander | Washington Free Beacon
 
I have no issue with the laws themselves, but think they should only exist if there is a free government photo ID available in that state. However, if no such avenue exists then I believe it's unreasonable as it essentially demands payment for the ability to vote.

I also question the notions regarding the low number of voter fraud, as they generally look at provable instances of voter fraud while ignoring that based on the current requirements I'm unsure how plausible the notion of "proving" various types of fraud on a wide scale basis is.

absolutely right

I myself am ok with voter ID laws as long as like you said, the ID is free or something along those lines.

If the ID is free and vastly/easily obtainable at say government facilities including post offices, libraries, at the polling place etc and other forms of generally accepted IDs are also usable I see no issue with it.

and also like you I question the motive. Why? because what usually accompanies the voter ID bills are all these other things. Like moving/relocating polling places, changing voter times, eliminating voting dates/days and none of it can logically be linked to preventing fraud.

Just seems odd, not gonna guess one way or another but i just want a system that works and that is secure but also very easy.
 
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