View Poll Results: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

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  • YES!

    20 20.41%
  • NO!

    52 53.06%
  • It can be!

    24 24.49%
  • Other. Please explain.

    2 2.04%
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Thread: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

  1. #41
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    Re: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I have no issue with the laws themselves, but think they should only exist if there is a free government photo ID available in that state. However, if no such avenue exists then I believe it's unreasonable as it essentially demands payment for the ability to vote.

    I also question the notions regarding the low number of voter fraud, as they generally look at provable instances of voter fraud while ignoring that based on the current requirements I'm unsure how plausible the notion of "proving" various types of fraud on a wide scale basis is.
    I agree with your first part. For someone that currently doesn't own a usable ID card asking them to go out and pay for one is basically a poll tax. It's a card they only need to vote and for no other reason.

    As for the second part...so the default assumption is that massive fraud occurs without proof and we should pass laws in order to stop something that we assume to be true?
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  2. #42
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    Re: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    The only valid objection against introducing voter ID requirement I can imagine is a combination of: (a) electoral fraud is not a significant problem, and (b) the measure will cost a lot of money (the IDs are provided to those who doesn't have them free of charge, naturally, to avoid a de facto poll tax situation).
    (a) It doesn't matter if there is a problem or not, this keeps there from being a problem in the future. Laws should be proactive, not reactive.
    (b) Anyone can go down to their local DMV and get a state-issued ID card for little or no money right now. I don't care if it costs money or not, the cost is minimal already and if they want to take part in the running of the government, it's their social duty to get an ID.
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  3. #43
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    Re: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Laws should be proactive, not reactive.
    I disagree wholeheartedly. Feedback from real life is far more important than (presumed) ideal foresight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I don't care if it costs money or not, the cost is minimal already and if they want to take part in the running of the government, it's their social duty to get an ID.
    I was not talking about the cost they incur, I was talking about the cost to the taxpayer. Our public finances are not exactly in perfect shape, not in most places.

  4. #44
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    Re: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    I was not talking about the cost they incur, I was talking about the cost to the taxpayer. Our public finances are not exactly in perfect shape, not in most places.
    How does it cost the taxpayer anything? Individuals should be wholly responsible for any costs incurred getting an ID.
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  5. #45
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    Re: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    How does it cost the taxpayer anything? Individuals should be wholly responsible for any costs incurred getting an ID.
    Every single voter ID proposal includes free-of-charge issuance of the IDs. Otherwise, it would constitute a poll tax. Unconstitutional.

  6. #46
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    Re: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Naughty Nuns, Bad Bankers and Ballot Bandits

    Naughty Nuns, Bad Bankers and Ballot Bandits

    Naughty Nuns, Bad Bankers and Ballot Bandits

    "On May 6, 2008, 12 fraudulent voters, dressed as nuns, attempted to cast ballots in the presidential primary in Indiana.Luckilyof them were caught, stopped cold by Indiana's new voter photo ID law. The law had been found to be constitutional by Federal Judge Richard Posner of the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals.
    It turns out the nuns that Posner's ruling turned away were, in fact, nuns. All the sisters had photo driver's licenses, but they had expired (the licenses, not the nuns). The Sisters of the Holy Cross, had, mercifully, given up driving (they were pushing 90 years of age.)
    It was a cute story that ran nationwide. What wasn't so cute, and ran nowhere in the US press, was that 72,000 black voters were blocked at the polls by this Posner-blessed photo ID law."
    "
    In his newly released autobiography, the aging Posner, hearing the wings of mortality and the gavel of Judgment Day coming down, admits that he was stone cold wrong. Posner now concedes that that the voter ID rule was a Republican partisan ploy in intent and viciously racist in practice.
    Posner, seeking forgiveness, says it wasn't his fault. He wasn't "really given strong indications that requiring additional voter identification would actually disfranchise people [who are] entitled to vote.""

    Are these really Jim Crow laws?

    Is this a voter disenfranchisement scheme?

    Are these type laws partisan?

    Excepting graveyards voting for LBJ in the 1960s, has this been a problem?

    How many cases of voter fraud have been prosecuted in your neighborhood?
    I would say no, no, no, I don't know but I read that Franken won his senate seat with the in-prison vote who were authorized to vote. 65 convictions prior to the statute of limitations ran out. With another 800 cases pending that weren't brought forward.

    Here in Georgia before they went to the photo ID, my next door neighbor went to vote in the afternoon only to find out someone had already voted for her. That's when Georgia first started to consider photo ID. I would say apparently there was more cases like this than just the one I mentioned. Personally, I think most of the fraud occurs at registration than at the polls.

    then too, I married a Thai and before she became a naturalized citizen and motor voter was started. The licence bureau asked her if she wanted to register to vote. Perhaps this is where I came to my conclusion that more fraud is at registration than the voting booth. Georgia gives free State ID's for those who do not drive or have any other form of photo identification. There is quite a list of what type of photo ID is okay.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  7. #47
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    Re: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    (a) It doesn't matter if there is a problem or not, this keeps there from being a problem in the future. Laws should be proactive, not reactive.
    (b) Anyone can go down to their local DMV and get a state-issued ID card for little or no money right now. I don't care if it costs money or not, the cost is minimal already and if they want to take part in the running of the government, it's their social duty to get an ID.
    The variety of "minimal" is pretty wide throughout the United States; from as little as $3 to about $50 or so.
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  8. #48
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    Re: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    The variety of "minimal" is pretty wide throughout the United States; from as little as $3 to about $50 or so.
    not to mention saying "Anyone can go down to their local DMV and get a state-issued ID" isnt even a true statement state by state, person by person.
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  9. #49
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    Re: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with demanding a person to legally identify themselves before being able to vote. In fact, that's how it should have always been. If you're too lazy to get ID, you don't need to be voting IMO. I don't care about any of the excuses either. Most of these people have had a lifetime to get an ID, it's not my fault they haven't bothered.
    Precisely. In fact, somehow folks have no trouble coming up with an ID when it's to cash a check or get into a bar they like.

  10. #50
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    Re: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

    Mike Turzai - the republican legislative leader from Pennsylvania who rammed through a law like this - came right out and said in no uncertain terms that the law would deliver his state to Romney in the 2012 presidential election.


    “Pro-Second Amendment? The Castle Doctrine, it’s done. First pro-life legislation – abortion facility regulations – in 22 years, done. Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done,” Turzai said at Saturday’s Republican State Committee meeting, according to PoliticsPA.com.
    Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz2ikuIPJbr

    Come on people - this issue is baked and done with that clear admission of what these laws are really about.
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