View Poll Results: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

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  • YES!

    20 20.41%
  • NO!

    52 53.06%
  • It can be!

    24 24.49%
  • Other. Please explain.

    2 2.04%
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Thread: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

  1. #91
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    Re: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post


    The amazing thing is how spun up people get over ID for voting when ID will be critical for those now eligible for free or supplimented Obamacare.

    Do you actually think anyone without some form of accurate, verifiable identification will be able to get Rx and other medical care without absolutely proving who they are?

    Since accurate ID will be critical to avoid killing a patient, do you think a "cross my heart, I'm John Doe" is going to suffice?

    Talk about ginning up the crowd with a bogus narrative.

    Shameful.
    If someone is having a medical problem I always thought they get treated regardless and no one is left to die because they didn't have the new federal ID endorsement on their driver's license. Maybe I misunderstood your post.
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    Re: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Okay, how about we make orthodox Judaism a requirement? Oh wait, the constitution doesn't allow that. Just like it doesn't allow having to pay money in order to vote. You want everyone to have ID, you make sure it's easily accessible. Besides, plenty of these ID laws aren't just about people who are too poor to need or use ID. Or the plenty of seniors who let their IDs expire and have no need to get new ones. It's also about students. Lots of college students, who don't drive, and are supported by their families, scholarships, or loans (which again go through their families), are being preventing from voting in the states where they reside, where they go to school.

    Gee, who do poor people, the elderly, and students tend to vote for..
    .



    The people who would have the biggest problem with this photo ID idea are exactly the people that the GOP would like to keep from voting.




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    Re: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I have no issue with the laws themselves, but think they should only exist if there is a free government photo ID available in that state. However, if no such avenue exists then I believe it's unreasonable as it essentially demands payment for the ability to vote.

    I also question the notions regarding the low number of voter fraud, as they generally look at provable instances of voter fraud while ignoring that based on the current requirements I'm unsure how plausible the notion of "proving" various types of fraud on a wide scale basis is.
    If you can't prove, you can't know. If there is no measurable number of provable instances, you really can't claim it happens.

    otherwise, a reasonable post as always.

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    Re: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    Really how hard is it to practically just change the text on templates for drivers licenses to say national I.D.? Did no one ever think of just using the shut up and deal with it policy.
    I don't own a car. I have a driver's license - renting is a necessity sometimes for me, and a passport. But many Americans do not drive at all and do not travel much.

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    Re: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    If someone is having a medical problem I always thought they get treated regardless and no one is left to die because they didn't have the new federal ID endorsement on their driver's license. Maybe I misunderstood your post.
    Well, the billing behind Obamacare is to provide healthcare to all. Since it seems people are opposed to voter ID because of the multitudes who will be disenfranchied due to the effort required to obtain the documents, what about ID required to get Obamacare coverage?

    It's going to be critical for people to get the right kind of care, and that means medical staff must be very precise about the kind of care they provide, and the kind of medications that would be used. The only way to do that is to make sure the ID of the person receiving care is known without any doubt.

    How are these people going to provide proper, and critically important ID, if it's impossible for them to do so for something so simple as voting?

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    Re: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If you can't prove, you can't know. If there is no measurable number of provable instances, you really can't claim it happens.
    That's kind of my point Boo...

    I imagine it's reasonable to suggest Fraud is happening to some degree, . The human condition suggests there will always be someone attempting to beat any system that exists. And even now there has at least been occasional legitimate cases. But in a more over arching notion, you're right that there's a big question of how much and what's it's impact.

    In that regard, I can't honestly answer. It could be that the amount of Fraud is ridiculously miniscule and entirely insignificant. Or it could be a sizable portion that could have an impact. Or it could be somewhere in between.

    Your comment about proof, and measurable numbers, speaks to my issue though. Essentially, as the laws and methods largely stand now, I don't think there are a lot of very efficient and sure fire ways to absolutely "prove" whether fraud is happening or not. Essentially, the way the system is currently set up, "proving" fraud is extremely difficult. As such, the lack of evidence of substantial fraud at the moment doesn't necessarily convince me or prove to me that fraud simply does not exist or does not exist in any meaningful way. It simply means that it doesn't exist in such a way that can be unquestionably proven under the current system.

    To give you an analogy in regards to what I'm saying (though not a direct analogy to this specific situation)....

    Say the only way I can "prove" something was stolen is to physically see a person gain possession and remove the item. Then say that I'm sat in front of a brick wall, with a bunch of large diamonds placed behind it. I see two people come up to the wall, disappear behind it, then reappear on the other side with a bag that has an approximately large diamond sized object in it.

    Under the current criteria I'm operating under in terms of "proving" something, I can not "prove" that they stole the diamond. If I told someone we should take down that wall so I could see where the Diamonds are sitting to prevent theft, a person could accurately say "Why? There's no proven diamond thefts that are occuring". Technically, they're right...there's no proven diamond thefts occuring because the current structure of the rules make it so that it can't be proven. However, the fact it can't be proven under the given circumstances doesn't necessarily prove that it isn't happening.

    -----------

    What I'm basically saying Boo is that you're right...we can't prove that voter fraud is happening at a significant level. I'm simply suggesting that those who claim there's "proof" that it's happening at an insiginificant level are not believable or credible in my opinion, because I don't believe the current system makes definitive "proof" of such far too difficult to obtain for it to be a meaningful statement to base a decision on either way.

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    Re: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    It's something you have to address, because God knows we hear it all the time from concerned members of the GOP. I don't buy into it at all (in fact, it reminds me immensely of the whining Democrats did after 2000), but that qualification is still significant.

    I think the design motivations are partisan, but the public rhetoric relies on ghost stories.
    Democrats cheating would translate into a number of voter fraud convictions and despite challenging people in these threads many many times we never see any significant evidence of that.
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    Re: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

    Question to Anybody: How many states currently offer "free" state photo ID cards to indigent and disabled individuals?

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    Re: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Even if a person doesn't drive, they have some form of identification.
    That is the point I'm trying to make.

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    Re: Is requiring voter photo ID a type of disenfranchisement?

    Last edited by Utility Man; 10-25-13 at 06:54 PM.
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    as I noted, its better that 10 nutjobs get guns than one good person be wrongly disarmed.

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