View Poll Results: Do you favor/oppose an amendment making Christianity the official religion of the US

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  • Strongly favor

    6 4.72%
  • Favor

    2 1.57%
  • Either or is agreeable

    1 0.79%
  • Oppose

    14 11.02%
  • Strongly Oppose

    104 81.89%
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Thread: Would you vote for Christianity to be the official religion of the United States?

  1. #71
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    Re: Would you vote for Christianity to be the official religion of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    No, but neither do I support the notion that religious people be precluded from politics or precluded from using their religion to inform their politics.
    It wasn't, initially. Up through the early 19th century, states had official churches.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Would you vote for Christianity to be the official religion of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    It wasn't, initially. Up through the early 19th century, states had official churches.
    Rhode Island used to have a law on the books that required you to read the Geneva Translation of the Bible to your children 4 hours per day.

    Puritans left England to set up theocracies not to avoid them.

    vasuderatorrent

  3. #73
    Educator Grendel's Avatar
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    Re: Would you vote for Christianity to be the official religion of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    No, but neither do I support the notion that religious people be precluded from politics or precluded from using their religion to inform their politics.
    They aren't.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I am strongly strongly strongly against the state limiting religious freedom and the ability to vote for religious individuals on issues they feel strongly about.
    They aren't.

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Why does there have to be a line? People try to enforce their moral beliefs on others all the time. Environmentalists are a good example.
    Environmental protections are in place to protect people's rights. For example, you can't dump poison into a stream running through your yard, since it runs to my yard next. By polluting your property, you're also polluting mine. The law preventing that is to protect me from harm caused by your action, not to enforce someone's morality.

    You trying to enforce your moral beliefs on others is just evidence that you aren't practicing your religion in a meaningful way. Your religion is about how you live, not about how other people live. If you're obsessing with how you think other people should live their lives, then you aren't spending that energy considering how you are living your own life. Further, you have not right to limit other people's freedom to follow their own moral code, so long as it doesn't harm anyone else. What you want is an authoritarian society that is the exact antithesis of a free country.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

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    Re: Would you vote for Christianity to be the official religion of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    You trying to enforce your moral beliefs on others is just evidence that you aren't practicing your religion in a meaningful way. Your religion is about how you live, not about how other people live. If you're obsessing with how you think other people should live their lives, then you aren't spending that energy considering how you are living your own life. Further, you have not right to limit other people's freedom to follow their own moral code, so long as it doesn't harm anyone else. What you want is an authoritarian society that is the exact antithesis of a free country.
    We have always instituted moral codes into local, state, and federal statutes and regulations. It's all a matter of degree, but it hardly is counteractive to our country's ideology.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 10-26-13 at 10:08 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Would you vote for Christianity to be the official religion of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    We have always instituted moral codes into local, state, and federal statutes and regulations. It's all a matter of degree, but it hardly is counteractive to our country's ideology.
    certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech

    Anything that abridges those rights is anti-American. Morality laws abridge those rights, generally. I have the right to pursue happiness, and, so long as it doesn't harm you, you have no natural right to interfere with that. That means that I'm free to live my life my way, whether you like it or not, so long as it does you no harm. The problem with right-wingers is that they want to tell everyone else how to live. They don't understand that they have no just authority to do so. You don't have to like the way I live. You only have to like the way you live. If I like to smoke pot, have gay sex, drink alcohol, eat transfat, smoke cigarettes, and sleep with women outside of marriage, that's not any of your business. You live your life. I live my life. That's what freedom is. Rightwingers are opposed to that. They want to control other peoples lives -- generally because they can't control their own.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

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    Re: Would you vote for Christianity to be the official religion of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech

    Anything that abridges those rights is anti-American. Morality laws abridge those rights, generally. I have the right to pursue happiness, and, so long as it doesn't harm you, you have no natural right to interfere with that. That means that I'm free to live my life my way, whether you like it or not, so long as it does you no harm. The problem with right-wingers is that they want to tell everyone else how to live. They don't understand that they have no just authority to do so. You don't have to like the way I live. You only have to like the way you live. If I like to smoke pot, have gay sex, drink alcohol, eat transfat, smoke cigarettes, and sleep with women outside of marriage, that's not any of your business. You live your life. I live my life. That's what freedom is. Rightwingers are opposed to that. They want to control other peoples lives -- generally because they can't control their own.
    Then you'll be accusing generations of Americans, including its founding generation with being anti-American. You would also be accusing the original progressive liberals (on up) as being anti-American. Individualist precepts had enormous limits in terms of societal regulations, regardless of what conservatives or liberals want to believe.

    Sure, we can call one thing or another excessive, but let's not pretend that somehow this is at all alien, or unaccepted in American practice. We do not even have to discuss some of the more heinous examples. We could demonstrate this with rather uncontroversial, forgotten statutes. Let's not contribute more foolishness to the American mythology, shall we?
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 10-26-13 at 10:31 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Would you vote for Christianity to be the official religion of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Then you'll be accusing generations of Americans, including its founding generation with being anti-American. You would also be accusing the original progressive liberals (on up) as being anti-American. Individualist precepts had enormous limits in terms of societal regulations, regardless of what conservatives or liberals want to believe.

    Sure, we can call one thing or another excessive, but let's not pretend that somehow this is at all alien, or unaccepted in American practice. We do not even have to discuss some of the more heinous examples. We could demonstrate this with rather uncontroversial, forgotten statutes. Let's not contribute more foolishness to the American mythology, shall we?
    The foundation was laid to allow maximum freedom. When people forget that and pass unnecessary restraints on other people's lives, they are eventually thrown out, either by the courts or by the people. The idea of morality law is contrary to the idea of a free country, and contrary to the principles that this country was build on, as stated above. Your morality has no business in my life. My morality guides my life. Your morality guides yours. Anything else is an attack on the principle of freedom.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

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    Re: Would you vote for Christianity to be the official religion of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    The foundation was laid to allow maximum freedom. When people forget that and pass unnecessary restraints on other people's lives, they are eventually thrown out, either by the courts or by the people. The idea of morality law is contrary to the idea of a free country, and contrary to the principles that this country was build on, as stated above. Your morality has no business in my life. My morality guides my life. Your morality guides yours. Anything else is an attack on the principle of freedom.
    A selective reading of American history would build on the notion that somehow we have continuously improved, discarding such communitarian practices, even though we did not and still do not. It's not contrary to a free society. That was frequently the point of such practices. Rather than inhibit freedom, it was done so as to promote it-the good of society and the individuals found within.

    The fact that you somehow seem to equate moral codes with theocratic practices just demonstrates your rather foolish analysis.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Would you vote for Christianity to be the official religion of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    A selective reading of American history would build on the notion that somehow we have continuously improved, discarding such communitarian practices, even though we did not and still do not. It's not contrary to a free society. That was frequently the point of such practices. Rather than inhibit freedom, it was done so as to promote it-the good of society and the individuals found within.

    The fact that you somehow seem to equate moral codes with theocratic practices just demonstrates your rather foolish analysis.
    Okay, let's make this simple. From what does the government derive just authority to dictate moral codes?

    Let's start there, since it's the very beginning. What gives the government this power?
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

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    Re: Would you vote for Christianity to be the official religion of the United States?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    Okay, let's make this simple. From what does the government derive just authority to dictate moral codes?

    Let's start there, since it's the very beginning. What gives the government this power?
    Salus populi suprema lex est from common law. It's the viewpoint that society and government were created to further the welfare of the public.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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