View Poll Results: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

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26. You may not vote on this poll
  • Society should mention race other than the human race because its proably a use of the race card.

    2 7.69%
  • If racism exists in 2013, expose it in order to correct it seeking to make society better.

    19 73.08%
  • Sorry, I don't have a dog in that fight. No position either way.

    5 19.23%
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Thread: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

  1. #71
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    Re: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Great post.

    I think it's important that all of us learn "the difference." Over and over again on this board I've seen racism allegations bandied about with casual abandon. I've come to understand a few things:

    • When you can't discredit the message, some people discredit the messenger.
    • Some people revel in Gotcha Games and look in woodpiles for the opportunity to play them.

    When we 'play the race card' unnecessarily, we diminish the real thing. Like the boy who cried wolf. And those who play it consistently are eventually marginalized by a society as they come to understand their end game.

    To specifically answer your question:



    Your second option is definitely more damaging.
    Well put Maggie

    I think the definition of racism in today's society has two extreme ends. And both ends are defined by raw emotions instead of logic.

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    Re: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    There is a point to that, but it runs into the same issue as Marxists ran into with the concept of "false consciousness." It places legitimacy on one mode of thought for a group and deligitimizes other beliefs held by the same group of people.
    "Delegitimizing" alternative beliefs is only a problem when there are reasonable alternatives. Frequent reluctance to take allegations of racism seriously is, in our society, unreasonable given that both extensive research and accounts from people of color demonstrate the pervasiveness of racism in our country. Such reluctance is even more unreasonable when it is takes the form of accusing others of "playing the race card" because it's an entirely uncritical dismissal.

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    Re: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    It's worse to create a culture where all assertions of racism are dismissed.

    When you analyze how people behave in discussions on race and racism, you can often understand them better when you figure out who they identify with in whatever scenario is being described as racist. More often than not, a person of color is going to identify with the victim of the racism. They're going to recall similar events in their life or the lives of their loved ones when they hear about the situation. As a result, they're going to find the allegation believable or, at the very least, worthy of investigation. For example, many black people have been followed around stores by those who suspect them of wanting to steal. So, if a black person tells a story where a shopkeeper followed her around a store, but ignored white shoppers, the black listeners are likely to agree that racism was involved.

    Now, when you look at the white (usually conservative) people who frequently dismiss allegations of racism as "playing the race card", you'll often find that they identify with the person or organization being accused of racism. They identify with the accused because, like people of color, they recall events in their lives or the lives of their loved ones that remind them of situation. However, in their recollections, they are not the victim of the racism, they or their loved one is the person being accused of racism in a way that they perceive as unjust. So, for them, the more pervasive - and thus greater - evil is being called a racist. Therefore, when they hear an allegation of racism, they're more likely to minimize or deny it because, in their perceived experience, allegations of racism are usually just some oversensitive liberals whining about nothing and misinterpreting things. (This is also why the same people are often racist as well - because they have no impetus to examine their prejudices. They just blame everyone else.)

    For the record, there are also people of color who are reluctant to take allegations of racism seriously as well and that usually comes from internalized racism which breeds a desire to be accepted by the dominant culture, particularly people in the dominant culture who don't like "other black people" or "other Hispanics", etc..
    Brilliant.
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    Re: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    "Delegitimizing" alternative beliefs is only a problem when there are reasonable alternatives. Frequent reluctance to take allegations of racism seriously is, in our society, unreasonable given that both extensive research and accounts from people of color demonstrate the pervasiveness of racism in our country. Such reluctance is even more unreasonable when it is takes the form of accusing others of "playing the race card" because it's an entirely uncritical dismissal.
    I mostly agree, but I'm just a bit more hesitant to push consciousness in a direction that would automatically disavow perspectives of dissenters within the racial minority.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I mostly agree, but I'm just a bit more hesitant to push consciousness in a direction that would automatically disavow perspectives of dissenters within the racial minority.
    Fair enough. I can understand why you'd be hesitant. However, for me, if I measure a position against facts (as demonstrated by extensive research and personal accounts) and that position is completely counter to those facts, then I believe it ought not to be perceived as a legitimate perspective no matter who is saying it.

    Moreover, as a point of clarity, I do not take the position that all dissenting perspectives with a racial minority are the result of internalized racism and a desire to belong to the dominant population. I'm drawing that conclusion only for the specific position that most or all allegations of racism are just people "playing the race card." All other dissenting (or conforming) opinions are evaluated separately according to how they stand up to the facts.

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    Re: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

    The poll offers a false dichotomy because usually "playing the race card" is what is the racism, not that race card accusation. The most notable example recently was the George Zimmerman case.

    Who I see as the worst and most common racism are those who look at everyone and every topic as racial issues and they cry racism if those involved aren't the same race. A racist is someone who looks at others foremost in racial terms and that is exactly what most race baiters do.

    Thus how can I answer a poll since race baiting is real racism?

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    Re: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And what is behind THE RACE CARD that gives it power?
    The media. Most people don't care anymore because it's been so trivialized and overused it's beaten into the ground.

  8. #78
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    Re: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?
    Surely, you're familiar with the classic Ćsop tale about the “The Boy Who Cried Wolf!’”, are you not?

    Aside from simply being dishonest, the thing that is really bad about “playing the race card” is that we've reached the point where it is done so much that where a genuine instance of racism might be found, efforts to call it out will be disregarded. We're so used to hearing bogus cries of “Racism!”, that we will ignore any efforts to call out the rare genuine instances of racism.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The media. Most people don't care anymore because it's been so trivialized and overused it's beaten into the ground.
    So the media created THE RACE CARD?
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    Re: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    It's worse to create a culture where all assertions of racism are dismissed.

    When you analyze how people behave in discussions on race and racism, you can often understand them better when you figure out who they identify with in whatever scenario is being described as racist. More often than not, a person of color is going to identify with the victim of the racism. They're going to recall similar events in their life or the lives of their loved ones when they hear about the situation. As a result, they're going to find the allegation believable or, at the very least, worthy of investigation. For example, many black people have been followed around stores by those who suspect them of wanting to steal. So, if a black person tells a story where a shopkeeper followed her around a store, but ignored white shoppers, the black listeners are likely to agree that racism was involved.

    Now, when you look at the white (usually conservative) people who frequently dismiss allegations of racism as "playing the race card", you'll often find that they identify with the person or organization being accused of racism. They identify with the accused because, like people of color, they recall events in their lives or the lives of their loved ones that remind them of situation. However, in their recollections, they are not the victim of the racism, they or their loved one is the person being accused of racism in a way that they perceive as unjust. So, for them, the more pervasive - and thus greater - evil is being called a racist. Therefore, when they hear an allegation of racism, they're more likely to minimize or deny it because, in their perceived experience, allegations of racism are usually just some oversensitive liberals whining about nothing and misinterpreting things. (This is also why the same people are often racist as well - because they have no impetus to examine their prejudices. They just blame everyone else.)

    For the record, there are also people of color who are reluctant to take allegations of racism seriously as well and that usually comes from internalized racism which breeds a desire to be accepted by the dominant culture, particularly people in the dominant culture who don't like "other black people" or "other Hispanics", etc..
    Although written well I think it is inaccurate, or rather it is "off" on focus. It also is written from a racist perspective since it appears your view is that racism is only about and against "black people" and "Hispanics." This is very false.

    There is a decisive different between claims that someone said something that is racist or in some analysis might be interpreted as being racist, and actual harmful acts of racism. People have tired of the cry of "racism!" because rather than it involves acts of racism but rather some extrapolated claim of racism based upon some psychological micro-analysis of what someone said - seeking to use the claim of racism the for beneficial agenda.

    One valid definition of what constitutes "racism" and being a "racist" is that a person views others, evaluated others and evaluates events foremost in the context of the race of people. That, of course, is exactly what racebaiters do. They consider people and events in racial terms. In my opinion, it is racebaiters who are the greatest racism problem in the country and who most promotes and fosters racism.

    Does racism exist? Certainly. Obama would not have won the Democratic primary over Clinton without the racism of African-Americans, the racism and sexism of Hispanics, and the sexism of Asians. Racism exists in many regards and forms.

    The assertion of racebaiters is that racism is a matter of whites only being racist against non-whites, and nothing is further from the truth.

    RACE-BAITING IS WORSE:
    Race-baiting wrongly destroys people's reputation and careers.
    Race-baiting inhibits free open speech.
    Race-baiting has corrupted our political system.
    Race-baiting leads to violence.
    Race-baiting leads to riots.
    Race-baiting urges people to evaluate others, what other's say and what other's do in racial terms.
    Race-baiting perpetuals racism.
    Last edited by joko104; 10-25-13 at 10:45 AM.

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