View Poll Results: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

Voters
26. You may not vote on this poll
  • Society should mention race other than the human race because its proably a use of the race card.

    2 7.69%
  • If racism exists in 2013, expose it in order to correct it seeking to make society better.

    19 73.08%
  • Sorry, I don't have a dog in that fight. No position either way.

    5 19.23%
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Thread: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

  1. #41
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    Re: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    I've been black my whole life. For almost my entire adult life I'm been a registered republican, drawn to the GOP because of a perception I had of the Republicans being the party that stood for doing the right things; God, family and country. I have almost always voted Republican in every election with a handful of exceptions prior to 2012 where I saw my role as making a statement of protest over things like holding the President to ridiculous double standards, voter suppression and other troubling problems I see with the current GOP culture. Up until recently I've thought of myself as a conservative in good standing. I say all that to lay a foundation on who I am and where I stand.

    One thing that's like fingernails on a chalkboard for me is when I hear people, almost always conservative in my experience, complain that someone is "using the race car." I happen to believe America does have a racist history and holdovers from that unfortunate aspect of history still occasionally can be seen today. But I think I'm fair about it. I defended and supported President Bush when he was accused of having less concern for Katrina victims because of race, which was a complete untruth. I stood up for Don Imus, realizing all he did was tell a joke that hurt no one but himself. I stood up for Paula Deen reasoning she has quite an imagination, wanted to create an early south ambiance at an event then apologized once she realized she'd offended people she loves.

    That all said I do think racism exists today and think it needs to be called out as such, especially what I call institutional racism so that it can be discussed and hopefully corrected. Institutional racism isn't some guy making a joke somebody got offended by or a 5 second sound bite from a speech that's magnified to try to define a person's entire life or the characters of his friends. Institutional racism is an assumption that any black person who achieves something in life probably got it through racial preferences unless unlike his white counterparts has figured out how to do his job 1000 times better than anybody else leaving no question in anybody's mind he's not just good, he's the best ever. Institutional racism is assuming anybody who looks Hispanic should be suspected of illegal immigration and unlike other Americans should give himself an extra 30 minutes travel time in case he's spotted and interrogated to make sure he's legit and maybe carry his birth certificate and a utility bill along with his driver's license at all times.

    I take exception to the politically correct culture that some seek to create by immediately demonizing any complaint of possible racism often even before investigating the facts. It seems they'll acknowledge racism if its blatantly obvious...sometimes... but then probably define it as an isolated case. However, less severe cases of racism should never be spoken of or the speaker will be vilified as "using the race card." The net result is since only major cases of racism end up being addressed while less serious cases are overlooked under political correctness pressures, then society is perpetually slightly racist because is non-PC to talk about the "slightly racist" stuff.

    My question is what's worse: running the risk of someone using the race card where in essence false assertions of racism are made or creating a culture where all assertions of racism are dismissed including legitimate racism?

    The first poll option should be "Society should NOT mention race..." Sorry.
    I think what gets me, that causes the term racist to become watered down to mean almost nothing is when someone differs in their point of view or is against a policy of President Obama, one of the first things that appears is calling him/her a racist. The same can be said on the immigration issue, if you don't believe in amnesty and a road to citizenship for illegal aliens then you labeled a racist. I once asked the question can you be against the Dream Act, against amnesty and not be a racist. Most of the replies I received were no, you're a racist becasue you oppose that.

    Another question along the same lines, is one automatically a bigot if they do not believe in same sex marriages? I do think the words racist and bigot are tossed around too much today that they have lost much of their original meaning. Being from Georgia, I know what a racist is/was and they were all inhumane beings deserving of the every meaning of the word. But a policy disagreement with the president? Perhaps those who throw those terms around have not yet met a real live true racist or a bigot? There still around.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  2. #42
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    Re: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Why is it either-or?
    Shouldn't we both reject cynical "race card" manipulations and resist racism whenever it rears its ugly head?
    I like this answer, but it assumes we know one form the other. However, some call it the race card whenever the subject is broached. This is problematic.

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  3. #43
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    Re: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Here is the origin and first usage of the term. And I challenge your assertion that "only a tiny fraction of such assertions are unfounded". Playing the race card by all the names it's been known is a time honored distraction technique. Pretty much comes down to the equivilent of, "Heh everybody, look over there!".
    From what I have seen on this site and another I use to belong to, I would say you are correct.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  4. #44
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    Re: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

    And what is behind THE RACE CARD that gives it power?
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    Re: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Andy View Post
    I don't think the situation is grey or subjective at all.
    I agree with you in terms of a broader, univeresal type stance. The grey I speak with is with individual situations and based around our perception.

    A man goes "I hate this president! He's not like me!".

    It COULD be because he's Black. it could be because he's a Democrat. It could be because he thinks he's muslim. It could be because he holds different views on abortoin and gay marriage. It could be because he smokes for all we know.

    Or hell, for a more relevant case...and god forgive me for bringing this up...but take the Trayvon Martin case. There should at LEAST have been enough conflicting views and opinions across the board to suggest that, at the very least, it would be inaccurate to claim with 100% factual certainty whether or not he acted the way he did specifically because of Race. Yet there are people on both sides who will declare, with absolute certainty, one way or the other...when in reality it's not fully possible for any of us to truly know for sure what role it played and HOW it played that role.

    That's why I say that often some of the things that are declared racism are subjective in nature; I mean that from a human sense, that given the information we have, and not utilizing assumptions and guesses, there is no objective truth in many of these situations. There's enough evidence that a case could be made either way in a reasonable or rational way.

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    Re: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Men lie, women lie, numbers don't.
    First, I'm going to point out that any honest statitician that you ever say that line to will likely give you a wonderful belly laugh. Numbers absolutely can, and do, lie.

    Second, despite that I do generally agree that when you have large sample sizes such as that showing such disproportionate situations that it bares a closer look. Where I'm guessing we'll depart however is an automatic assumption regarding the legitimacy of declaring "racism" within the legal system as the overwhelming or primary contributor in and of itself. I believe a variety of factors, and yes that includes legal system racism, play into it and it's far to nuanced to just write off as "racist" and call it a day. But I think it would be foolish to say that race, and racial views, do not play into that number in some fashion OR that such numbers aren't problematic.

    Third, I think there is also a large difference between declaring an institutional issue and using that institutional issue to declare every individual situation in line with that. In the post I was speaking of, in terms of those things that hover in "the middle", my mind was more on INDIVIDUAL instances where there's significant reasonable disagreement regarding whether racism is present or not. Even if one was to conceed that, in general, the legal system is biased against a race...an individual situation of someone of that race still needs to be viewed on it's own merits. One can use the knowledge regarding the system to butress ones thoughts or as the basis for an argument, but the issue with the system itself is not a defacto indication that an individual situation was influenced by racism.

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    Re: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And what is behind THE RACE CARD that gives it power?
    It gets it's power because the vast majority of people think racism is bad, think being racist is bad, and think racist actions should be avoided and/or stopped. Thus an accusation of an action/comment/person/system being "racist", or a variation there of, bestows upon that entity a negative connotatoin.

    In a more micro comparison, it is similar to a "Bias Card" when talking about political news. In general, people believe Bias is a bad thing...thus, accusing something of "bias" instantly connotates a negative notion towards that entity.

    This basic thought process is actually the basis behind "Godwin's Law". Hitler and Nazi's have a negative connotation, and thus attempting to compare Nazi's or Hitler to something you're arguing against is an attempt to impart to others that said thing is also negative.

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    Re: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Why is it either-or?
    Shouldn't we both reject cynical "race card" manipulations and resist racism whenever it rears its ugly head?
    Yes, but some people automatically jump to the "playing the race card" so as to dismiss it.


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    Re: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

    I think they pretty much go hand in hand.

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    Re: What's worse: using the race card or dismissing legitimate racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    It gets it's power because the vast majority of people think racism is bad, think being racist is bad, and think racist actions should be avoided and/or stopped. Thus an accusation of an action/comment/person/system being "racist", or a variation there of, bestows upon that entity a negative connotatoin.

    In a more micro comparison, it is similar to a "Bias Card" when talking about political news. In general, people believe Bias is a bad thing...thus, accusing something of "bias" instantly connotates a negative notion towards that entity.

    This basic thought process is actually the basis behind "Godwin's Law". Hitler and Nazi's have a negative connotation, and thus attempting to compare Nazi's or Hitler to something you're arguing against is an attempt to impart to others that said thing is also negative.
    You have to go back even further than that explaination. Charges of racism would have no power if not for the institution and practice of racism in this country in the first place.

    One cannot start a public discussion about the gangs of Japanese American youth in the suburbs who are responsible for dealing dopes and most street crime. Without truth behind it that is recognized and accepted as truth, there is no power in such an absurdity.

    The race card was not invented by Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson. It was invented and empowered by the racists who practiced it through slavery, Jim Crow, separate but equal and continuing discrimination against minorities.
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