View Poll Results: What should happen for the over 20mph violation example given?

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  • Acknowledge the no-traffic and quality of vehicle in consideration.

    6 8.82%
  • Severe chastizing but only written warning.

    4 5.88%
  • A ticket, but written for under 20 over due to circumstance.

    2 2.94%
  • Write a ticket for over 20 mph but under 100 mph

    3 4.41%
  • Write a ticket forthe full 170 mph

    22 32.35%
  • A huge $$ fine

    15 22.06%
  • Permanently seize car and forfeture it.

    3 4.41%
  • Jail time

    3 4.41%
  • Suspend driver's license for 1 year

    7 10.29%
  • Suspend driver's license for years.

    3 4.41%
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Thread: What should be penalty for 20mph+ over limit speeding?

  1. #351
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    Re: What should be penalty for 20mph+ over limit speeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Did you make that vid, or do you mean that this vid reminds you of how your wife drives?



    If it was you...nice road. Where's that at? And advice, out a small bright weighted item on the end of a short string, and dangle that from the mirror. Low tech g meter...gives the viewer a better idea of speed. I do it in my vette vids...it's always fun to see how close to sideways I can get it before the tires break.
    No, not her. Nor her car (though she is currently talking with an Audi dealer in Georgia over a white one exactly like it as it is more sophisticated than her tricked out 4 rotor Mazda, though it wouldn't be as fast as the Mazda.) I came across this video reading about what she's thinking of getting. The one she is negotiating over is a NEW STOCK 2012 that's just been sitting on the showroom floor unsold in an Audi dealer is a small city. She saw it when we picked up a used '05 AMG/Renntech Mercedes CL65 there she got me for my birthday. The '05-06 CL65 is the fastest production Mercedes ever made, though doesn't look like it.

    They told her "no, we don't let people test drive it" when she first asked, but then changed their mind when they saw she was with me and we were paying green cash for the CL65. But by then she had soured over it. Since, though, her and the dealer have been talking over the phone. She really likes how they look, they do have serious potential, but the are costs and availability of performance mods questions she still has.

    She is hesitating because modification parts for those are rare and astronomically expensive - and to her it is not just the cost of the car but what it's potential is and what it takes to reach it. In stock form the R8 V10s don't have THAT impressive of performance stats, other than in handling. She looks at those kinds of numbers.

    That is how she drives UNLESS a child is in the car with her, she is near where children are or in town. Some roads around here are more winding that in the video.
    Last edited by joko104; 10-22-13 at 06:27 PM.

  2. #352
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    Re: What should be penalty for 20mph+ over limit speeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    In CT, they aren't. I was gonna buy a tube frame C3, but after going to the DMV prior to purchase, was told the car could not be registered due to it not having a legal chassis. I think if it's a tube frame from the factory, sorta like the old ford gt40, or some newer super cars, it's fine. Are you sure the DMV was aware your car was tube frame when you got it registered? I'm pretty sure it's a DOT thing.

    I'd love to do a tube frame for my 76, as it sits, best I can hope for to reduce flex is a good cage, and even at that, up here, only 4 point roll bars are street legal.
    How were they going to know unless you had a rebuilt title or something?

  3. #353
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    Re: What should be penalty for 20mph+ over limit speeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by USViking View Post
    Oh is that so?

    Did you actually look at the citation? Here is what the owners have to say about themselves on their home page:

    Forensic Dynamics Inc. is a consulting forensic engineering firm specializing in accident reconstruction...
    Our firm has reconstructed over 10,000 accidents and given expert witness testimony in over 500 trials across North America.


    Seems I have to decide who to believe, Forensic Dynamics, Inc., or some putz who calls himself “joko.”

    joko loses.




    Whoa Nellie- not the distance I claim, the distance a company of auto accident reconstruction engineers claims.

    And speaking of citations, you could stand to provide a few of your own. Don’t blame me for not trying, though- I googled all kinds of “Mercedes CL65 braking performance” hits, and found nothing except sales boilerplate glossy.

    But, taking your 1/3 the distance****at face value, assuming a drunk takes triple the normal time to react, he will stop a car doing 70mph in about 400 feet, whereas at 170mph Mr. cold sober joko hotstuff needs about 647 feet to stop that CL65 of his. (I will provide the calculations as soon as I see a believable cite for the 1/3 the distance claim)

    Joko loses again, this time to a drunk.




    Rehash, covered.




    Interesting you haven’t told us you would prefer someone driving home from the neighborhood bar at a sober 130.
    SO... your complaint is that my car can only stop in only HALF the distance rather than ONE THIRD the distance you claimed?

    Here's 127 feet at 60 mph for OEM tires. Mine actually are a bit wider and sticker. I think you said what, 234 feet from 70 and 10 miles from 170 or something like that.
    http://www.motorweek.org/reviews/roa...benz_cl_65_amg

    Not mentioned in the article is the CL65 of that particular two years has dual totally independent brake systems powering two independent sets of brake pads and calipers. Redundancy. No brake fade even at that level of stress. The 05-06s specifically designed to go a continuous 186 mph on the German highway with 4 passengers.

    I probably would be agreeing with some of this about high speed danger until I actually started researching (and driving) modern cars, and modern performance cars with modern tires and modern brakes and modern suspensions. Cars aren't what they used to be.

    A ZR1 going 170 on open road is safer than a 1960s car doing 100. And I'm not a Vette fan. I just recognize what they can do. That ZR1 driver is more likely by a factor of 1000 to be killed by someone coming thru an urban intersection in an SUV while texting or messing with the radio. No one else is endangered on an open road.

    Absolutely I would prefer a sober person doing 130 in a car suited for it than a drunk doing 70 in ANY vehicle. I've driven very fast (never 170), but I have NEVER driven DUI even slightly. Not in my life.
    Last edited by joko104; 10-22-13 at 06:51 PM.

  4. #354
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    Re: What should be penalty for 20mph+ over limit speeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    How were they going to know unless you had a rebuilt title or something?
    All cars coming out of state get a vin check, a visual, and performance. Brakes are checked, ebrake, cats are checked, etc.

    Hell, it's illegal in this state to swap an older motor into a newer car. For instance, swapping a gen 1 sbc 383 into a Porsche 944? Illegal. But that's a lot harder to catch.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: What should be penalty for 20mph+ over limit speeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    All cars coming out of state get a vin check, a visual, and performance. Brakes are checked, ebrake, cats are checked, etc.

    Hell, it's illegal in this state to swap an older motor into a newer car. For instance, swapping a gen 1 sbc 383 into a Porsche 944? Illegal. But that's a lot harder to catch.
    I would move.

  6. #356
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    Re: What should be penalty for 20mph+ over limit speeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    I would move.
    I never wanted to come here in the first place. I lived in Sarasota, FL, before moving to ****meintheassnecticut. But this is where all of my wife's family lives. So the choice was made for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  7. #357
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    Re: What should be penalty for 20mph+ over limit speeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    You obviously have never driven a car designed to go that fast.
    My daily driver is a c5 Corvette. It's designed to run at 180 . . . on a track. I barely hit 100 on VA Route 15 and was floating. However, on I-66 is was a lot better. The thing is that the public roads just aren't engineered for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    My daily drive was from Gaertringen to Vaihingen. I would normally cruise a nice safe, and with the faster traffic, at about 130 MPH... Daily...
    Aren't those roads much, much better than our highways?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    This is my latest project, so far it is just a good loud driver

    <image>
    Beautiful.

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Highway design is not really an issue except entry and exits. Highway quality is a real issue though. Americas highways are actually some of the best designed in the world, just poorly maintained and not enough planing done on getting on and off.
    A lot of highways have changes in elevation that aren't safe at 170 . . . you'd go airborne. Others, as you've said, aren't maintained. Not all highways are nice, smooth blacktop, either. There are still concrete or gravel/tar roads. On those rough roads, going over 90 in a C5 and you're floating a bit. You can still steer enough to change lanes slowly at 90, but if you needed to either stop, or change quickly, you'd be screwed. I wouldn't even try at 170. Not a chance.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    ALL INTERSTATES were designed so that military vehicles such as army trucks could go at least 100 mph. That was and is the legal standard, so you are wrong.
    I was in Florida when the 55 limit was dropped, and Florida said they'd cap at 70 because Florida's highways were designed for 70 MPH traffic. Where'd you get the 100 MPH thing? Also, is that "go 100 in war conditions" or "go 100 safely".

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    You are wrong about cars becoming airborne the faster they go. That's true if you're driving a 1950s Olds Rocket 88. It does NOT apply to modern performance cars. They actually get heavily the faster they go due to ground effects (wings, flairs, spoilers and underbody structure.)
    Not unless they're either very, very expensive or professionally tuned. My C5 is engineered to stay aerodynamically neutral. When some dumbass buys a wing at PepBoy's to stick on his car, there's not telling what it's going to do at 170. Might flatten his suspension, might lift his rear so he can't break.



    Mind you, I'm strongly in favor of relaxing traffic laws, just not that much. 170 on public roads is ridiculous.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

  8. #358
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    Re: What should be penalty for 20mph+ over limit speeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    My daily driver is a c5 Corvette. It's designed to run at 180 . . . on a track. I barely hit 100 on VA Route 15 and was floating. However, on I-66 is was a lot better. The thing is that the public roads just aren't engineered for that.



    Aren't those roads much, much better than our highways?



    Beautiful.



    A lot of highways have changes in elevation that aren't safe at 170 . . . you'd go airborne. Others, as you've said, aren't maintained. Not all highways are nice, smooth blacktop, either. There are still concrete or gravel/tar roads. On those rough roads, going over 90 in a C5 and you're floating a bit. You can still steer enough to change lanes slowly at 90, but if you needed to either stop, or change quickly, you'd be screwed. I wouldn't even try at 170. Not a chance.



    I was in Florida when the 55 limit was dropped, and Florida said they'd cap at 70 because Florida's highways were designed for 70 MPH traffic. Where'd you get the 100 MPH thing? Also, is that "go 100 in war conditions" or "go 100 safely".



    Not unless they're either very, very expensive or professionally tuned. My C5 is engineered to stay aerodynamically neutral. When some dumbass buys a wing at PepBoy's to stick on his car, there's not telling what it's going to do at 170. Might flatten his suspension, might lift his rear so he can't break.



    Mind you, I'm strongly in favor of relaxing traffic laws, just not that much. 170 on public roads is ridiculous.
    The C5 was designed to have a low drag coefficient, the help boost top speed on straights. They were not hp monsters...even the LS6 powered Z had 400hp. In order for it to be competitive, the Chevy engineers compromised on downforce and high speed handling, in favor of greater acceleration at speed, and over all top speed. The C6 generates a lot more downforce, but maintains its formidable acceleration and top speed, because even the base model makes either 400 or 430, depending on year...and the mighty 427 powered Z packs a 505 hp punch. That's what the C6 Z can lap entire seconds ahead of the C5Z, even on tighter circuits, where the 100 extra ponies is less game breaking.


    I don't know why you are getting float at the nose at 90 mph, though. Have you altered anything on the body? Raised it or lowered it? It should be pretty firm at 90... My stock bodied '76 is planted, even at 120, the fastest I've ever gone in it. In fact, mine makes TOO much down force on the nose... It's twitchy at higher speeds...
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  9. #359
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    Re: What should be penalty for 20mph+ over limit speeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Did you make that vid, or do you mean that this vid reminds you of how your wife drives?



    If it was you...nice road. Where's that at? And advice, out a small bright weighted item on the end of a short string, and dangle that from the mirror. Low tech g meter...gives the viewer a better idea of speed. I do it in my vette vids...it's always fun to see how close to sideways I can get it before the tires break.
    I don't know where.

    The sideways starting is not only common on 1 wheel drive cars and trucks (most are), but also on "limited slip" differentials, which generally will do about a 60/40 power split under load - though most people call them "positraction." TRUE positraction - like a Detroit locker" - would destroy cornering. She would change the LSD on the Audi and my CL65's differential was replaced with a true "posi" LSD unit (meaning 50/50 split of power) by the original owner. Unlike most people who fixate only on the motor for upping performance, he had the entire drivetrain done (torque converter, transmission, rear differential, not just the motor).


    http://www.renntechmercedes.com/www/...ct/giken_6.jpg
    "By upgrading the differential, you benefit in both straight line stability and vehicle handling while cornering. During a full power straight line run, our LSD (limited slip differential) will lock 100% and provide torque equally to each powered wheel, providing stable straight line runs. When exiting from a corner, our LSD's transition to the full 100% lock position is smooth and predictable. This gives the vehicle better traction and stability throughout the corner, improving overall lap times and a noticeable improvement in overall vehicle handling.
    The track is not the only place where the differential comes into play though. Bad weather and harsh road conditions can make the street a dangerous place. In snow, ice, wet weather and regions where the road surface can become unstable, our LSD easily adapts and adjusts tire rotation to increase vehicle stability on the road and help to dramatically improve driver safety."

    This is part of Renntech's "R3" kit for Mercedes. Such units are made for most cars, costing about $3500 to $7000 depending on brand, not counting installation. They eliminate the unequal launching that 60-40 factory LDSs tend to have - which is why production cars even with so-called "posi" which is really 60-40 limited slip will kick off to one side or the other. If a person really builds up a car AND puts on super sticky drag racing tires this can get them into real trouble on a race track. But TRUE LOCKING posi destroys cornering ability due to having to "drag" one wheel around the corner.

    Old "Detroit lockers" basically were like huge ratchets in the differential that you could hear clicking when going around a corner. Strictly for straight line acceleration only.
    Last edited by joko104; 10-22-13 at 08:55 PM.

  10. #360
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    Re: What should be penalty for 20mph+ over limit speeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    The C5 was designed to have a low drag coefficient, the help boost top speed on straights. They were not hp monsters...even the LS6 powered Z had 400hp. In order for it to be competitive, the Chevy engineers compromised on downforce and high speed handling, in favor of greater acceleration at speed, and over all top speed. The C6 generates a lot more downforce, but maintains its formidable acceleration and top speed, because even the base model makes either 400 or 430, depending on year...and the mighty 427 powered Z packs a 505 hp punch. That's what the C6 Z can lap entire seconds ahead of the C5Z, even on tighter circuits, where the 100 extra ponies is less game breaking.


    I don't know why you are getting float at the nose at 90 mph, though. Have you altered anything on the body? Raised it or lowered it? It should be pretty firm at 90... My stock bodied '76 is planted, even at 120, the fastest I've ever gone in it. In fact, mine makes TOO much down force on the nose... It's twitchy at higher speeds...
    Most people don't realize that rear "wings" on their cars actually slow the car down. The energy used to make downforce also is areodynamic drag. The most notable example was the (then) fabulous Lambrogheni Contact - still one of the coolest exotics every made. It's top speed was 150 mph with the big rear wing and 160 mph without it.

    One justification Mercedes makes for their cars typically being 500 to 1000 pounds heavier than their performance counter parts, is Mercedes more relies on weight rather than ground effects wings and flares to keep the car down. While this reduced off-the-line launching due to higher weight, the faster a car goes the less important weight is and the more important areodynamics is. Thus, the fastest the Mercedes goes, the more advantage it has for lack of ground effects of lightweight cars.

    There are plenty of videos online of 65 series Mercedes in 1 kilometer (5/8ths mile) races where the Mercedes starts out and remains a few car lengths behind a Z06 or Lambrogheni, but will notably blow past those when they get much over 100 mph - because the Mercedes has piles of torque and far less areodynamic drag - with the extra 1/2 ton weight increasingly less relevant.

    A lightweight car with ground effects will out accelerate an identical heavier car without - but ultimately the heavier car without ground effects is faster. So what most matters to you? 0-100 mph? Or 100 mph+? Ideally, of course, you'd have unlimited power and ground effects, but other than maybe F1 race cars that isn't the case. Like nearly everything in life, performance issues are a collection of compromise and priority decisions.

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