View Poll Results: What should happen for the over 20mph violation example given?

Voters
68. You may not vote on this poll
  • Acknowledge the no-traffic and quality of vehicle in consideration.

    6 8.82%
  • Severe chastizing but only written warning.

    4 5.88%
  • A ticket, but written for under 20 over due to circumstance.

    2 2.94%
  • Write a ticket for over 20 mph but under 100 mph

    3 4.41%
  • Write a ticket forthe full 170 mph

    22 32.35%
  • A huge $$ fine

    15 22.06%
  • Permanently seize car and forfeture it.

    3 4.41%
  • Jail time

    3 4.41%
  • Suspend driver's license for 1 year

    7 10.29%
  • Suspend driver's license for years.

    3 4.41%
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Thread: What should be penalty for 20mph+ over limit speeding?

  1. #181
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    Re: What should be penalty for 20mph+ over limit speeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The word "conservative," like liberal, libertarian or progressive do not have a universal meaning and certainly not on this forum. For some, "conservative" means totalitarian fascism. To others, it means pure socialist. For others, it means strict governmental behavioral control of the citizenry. Such leaning terms are all over the place in application.
    I understand that but it does annoy me when someone chooses a lean and then posts something that would be way outside of what is considered the normal definition. Such terms should have an approximate meaning else they become meaningless, and since he lives in the US I did not have to think that he was using the term with respect to another country.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

  2. #182
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    Re: What should be penalty for 20mph+ over limit speeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    So what most annoys you is that person enjoys their car and driving, and the purpose of government is to make certain people are unhappy and punished for anything that matters to them the government doesn't like.

    Of course, you are presuming that taking away the license and car stops the person from driving, just like presuming taking away someone's drugs will stop them for using drugs.

    Most people whose license are suspended do not stop driving. If the person wealthy, he'd just get another car. If not, he'd just let the ZR1 be re-possessed and finance another car before it was. It likely will be fast, but may not be as well built for it or in as good of condition.

    A more likely reality to your goal of teaching the person the illegally of doing what he likes is that next time he doesn't stop from the police. Losing his license could cost him many times more than the ZR1, that he's paying for but doesn't have. He definitely learned his lesson to not stop for the police more than anything else.

    And that time then there is a 180 mph chase. Those tend to not end well for anyone, particularly others, though a lot of patrol officers in pursuit cruisers live for them.

    The problem with government control freaks - in and out of government - is they actually believe everyone will let the government control and constrain them in any and every way. Rather, it makes many people see the law, law enforcement, the court system and the government as the enemy of their life - and that actually might be accurate too.

    And then if it goes badly because the government can't yet put mind-control in people (though would like to), even if innocent people are harmed or die as a result - they justify it anyway blaming the person in the situation they put the person into in the first place.
    thank god officers around here use common sense. I could not stand to live in one of those regulatory heavy states or cities.

  3. #183
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    Re: What should be penalty for 20mph+ over limit speeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    thanks for proving my point, cell phones have not been around long enough for good data.
    You have a real talent for slinging some real ****.

    There were 55 million cell phone subscribers way back in 1997. See link:

    2007: 82% of Americans Own Cell Phones


    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    I drive 60k plus miles per year, A texter scares the hell out me,way more that a speeder.
    Get back with me as soon as you see someone doing 100 over the limit, in accordance with the OP premise.

  4. #184
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    Re: What should be penalty for 20mph+ over limit speeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Really? Then that needs to change right there. My dad used to get access back in the day back in TX, and here in SoCal the autocross still does, so do the gokarts, I know cuz I video 'em. I don't go into the roundyrounds but I assumed if they lease out their parking lots, they'd lease that out still also.


    Depends on the track. Some are booked up, others one can book a session. Just depends on the time of the year and the racing schedules. Nevada opens up a 90 mile stretch of HWY 318 for the Silver State Challenge. There are stretches of the course were the average speeds are 180mph. I brought my Pontiac Trans Am and cruised an average of 120 and go it up to 150. In an upcoming year I intend to bring an LS6 powered Triumph Spitfire. It should be bitching gnarly awesome carving some of the stretches with that bad boy. Its a go kart on steroids. Its the place to go besides Bonneville if you want to go really fast and have it sanctioned.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
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    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  5. #185
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    Re: What should be penalty for 20mph+ over limit speeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    Given that speeding tickets are a citation and at worst a misdemeanor that would be a big step upping it to felony. Not only would this require a trial by jury but could be a burden if the accused decides to not waive having a Grand Jury for indictment. Also the OP has it going 100mph over the speed limit.
    100 mph over the limit should be a big step up.



    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    Our prisons and jails are overburdened already and you suggest that we should add to their number for a first time offense.
    Not enough people drive 100 over the limit to make a significant difference in our prison population. However, if there were enough to make a difference then all the more reason to lock up as many as possible for as long as possible.



    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    And BTW if it is a felony it would most likely be more than a year punishment since by definition a felony requires more than a year sentence.
    One year actually served naturally assumed a much longer original sentence.



    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    The vehicle that was used can be impounded but not the vehicles that were not used in the offense.
    We can change that any time we want as long as not too many libertarians get elected or appointed judge.



    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    And the law cannot assume that if the accused/convicted would violate any suspension on his license.
    I don't see how this addresses the point. What the law assumes is that violators will be liable for increased punishment.



    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    The person could after all have a friend drive him in his car so it also not that the cars could not be of any use to him.
    Whose car do you mean by "his car"?



    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    This is extreme since the OP doesn't have a history of the driver and I can assume that this is a first time offense, she cooperated by pulling over immediately after she knew she was caught.
    Irrelevant due to the seriousness of the crime.



    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    A suspension would be reasonable but not a lifetime ban. A draconian penalty for an offense that does not involve harm to people or damage to property (actual harm) is likely to ratchet down on what is required to receive such a penalty, since there is no quantifiable standards that the penalty is weighed against.
    By that reasoning someone who shoots but misses should not be subject to draconian penalty just because he was lucky. We should not have to wait until someone gets hurt to impose such punishment.



    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    This then would violate the equal protection clause
    No it would not. It would only be selecting a different factor, namely percentage of personal wealth, upon which to base equality.



    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    as well as the excessive fines clause.
    I am not sure the cutoff point has ever been established for this. I do not think a year's pay would be excessive.



    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    Fines of this extent are almost certain to establish an Authoritarian Rule over the people by the government.
    Bull****.



    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    Most people who are not wealthy and even many of the wealthy would not be able to afford such a fine and this can be used as a means of control over them to whatever the State would allow itself. This means giving the people who run the State would be granted enormous power than has been granted to the State so far.
    The state must have enormous power over those who are convicted of serious crime. Orderly society could not be attained otherwise.



    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    I see that you list yourself as Conservative. Perhaps a reevaluation of your lean should be made since this does not seem like anything a conservative would be for.
    I am a responsible conservative, but the measures I advocate should also be agreeable to responsible liberals. Libertarians I am not sure about.

  6. #186
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    Re: What should be penalty for 20mph+ over limit speeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    A highway patrol car on a good condition 4 lane divided highway with a 70 mph speed limit, no other cars on the highway in a remote area picks up a sole car doing 170 mph heading his way on the other side empty and flat open area 2 lanes. A new Corette ZR 1 designed to go 200 mph. When the officer pulls across the center medium, the ZR1 driver (no passenger) pulls over anticipating being stopped.

    What should the officer do and what should the penalty be?

    Multiple choice, public vote.
    The car should be confiscated so that I can buy it at the next auction and show this dip**** how to not pull over.

  7. #187
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    Re: What should be penalty for 20mph+ over limit speeding?

    Arizona like most western states has a lot of open road with miles of nothing. The state patrol will generally spot you 10 miles over. With a speed limit of 75 you can general roll at or just under 85 - unless you are driving between Tucson and Phoenix.

    I have gotten stopped twice for criminal speeding - doing 20 mph over the speed limit: once in Ajo coming back from Mexico and once in Verde Valley coming back from Flagstaff. Criminal speeding means they can handcuff your dangerous driving self and take you in to jail, where you can receive jail time and a hefty fine and more. In fact in Glendale, law enforcement is required to cuff you and take you in if you are arrested for criminal speeding.

    In my Ajo situation the officer was a fine guy. He recommended I go to court in Ajo. He wrote a ticket and I assured him I would be in court. The judge in Ajo was one heck of a good person. The brief lecture he gave me was personal and he asked me not to speed in the town where his family and friends lived. He asked me to come back to Ajo and spend some time and spend some money too. He wanted me to know his neighbors and said that once I did I would never think of endangering their lives. I gave him my word that I would. He told me he believed me and said that if I attended traffic school that he would be satisfied. I did and now when I drive through Ajo on the way to Mexico I drive the speed limit through Ajo. I always stop and get gas or have lunch or buy bread at "Eat My Buns".

    My 2nd criminal speeding adventure was in the mountains south of Flagstaff. The state patrol guy was a hell of fine guy. We ended up leaning up against the hood of his car talking for about 20 minutes. We had a lot in common. He dropped the 20 mph over the speed limit in a construction area and wrote me up for "in excess of 15 mph over the posted limit". I never speed up their again either. Doing so would disrespect him if he had to stop me again. He deserves my respect.










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  8. #188
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    Re: What should be penalty for 20mph+ over limit speeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    A highway patrol car on a good condition 4 lane divided highway with a 70 mph speed limit, no other cars on the highway in a remote area picks up a sole car doing 170 mph heading his way on the other side empty and flat open area 2 lanes. A new Corette ZR 1 designed to go 200 mph. When the officer pulls across the center medium, the ZR1 driver (no passenger) pulls over anticipating being stopped.

    What should the officer do and what should the penalty be?

    Multiple choice, public vote.
    I would like to point out to all reading this thread I have a unique perspective on this in that I have been a professional driver and am still licensed as such and occasionally work as such. I have more miles and experience driving backwards than many people going forwards. I have been an instructor, safety man, and supervisor of professional drivers. I now own a logistics company.

    So allow me to be blunt. Most people driving in the US got their licenses from a Cracker Jack box, or may well have. They are not taught properly with ANY longevity. They as compared to most of the rest of the world except maybe the Germans are decent drivers. Most people in this country think our drivers are bad. They are quite polite and tame to be honest, even in New York. Most of the rest of the world drives like rabid baboons high on coke and meth. That said, this doesn't mean US drivers have a real clue of what they are doing. On the contrary, they surely don't. They are under trained. Period.

    If I were king for a day, I would say that if you want a license you need to go to a real driving school and learn to REALLY operate a vehicle. This means taking school for a couple of months and taking vehicles on the skid pad and obstacle course and driving at speed and testing the limits of the vehicle and learning how to induce and recover form various problems. Real training from real drivers like the Bondurant school which is famous though in my opinion not the very best, just pointing them out as to the proper course intensity. Any Blackwater style driving training. The training must include extreme maneuvering in various vehicles and sizes while under duress.

    My main problem with drivers in this country is they don't really know quite what they are doing, they have a basic gist and that's it. They can past the state tests which accommodate the lowest common denominator. That is inadequate to create a truly safe driving environment. The serious lack of REAL training especially for younger drivers is a primary cause of accidents more than anything. Most people don't know how to truly use and maneuver their vehicles properly. Many start with bad habits and get lots of experience driving with bad habits and get into trouble without ever knowing it until its too late.

    My idea of a proper course would include

    The parts and their function on an automobile in detail.

    The how's and whys of maintenance in detail, with emphasis on tires and their function, how to deal with a blowout, and practice on a skid pad dealing with sudden blowouts concentrating on various vehicles and configurations with special emphasis on steering tire blowouts and trailer blowouts.

    Driving time in various configurations and speeds in unusual attitudes.

    Obstacle course driving at speed.

    Backing through an obstacle course.

    Off highway driving techniques and how to deal with various situations. Practice off road techniques.

    Winter driving techniques. Practice of such.

    High speed driving and maneuvering.

    Emergency driving procedures. On and off highway emergency procedures.

    Defensive driving techniques, and borrowing from the motorcycle crowd offensive driving technique, and when to transition from one technique to another.

    There's more but I think you get the gist.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  9. #189
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    Re: What should be penalty for 20mph+ over limit speeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    I would like to point out to all reading this thread I have a unique perspective on this in that I have been a professional driver and am still licensed as such and occasionally work as such. I have more miles and experience driving backwards than many people going forwards. I have been an instructor, safety man, and supervisor of professional drivers. I now own a logistics company.

    So allow me to be blunt. Most people driving in the US got their licenses from a Cracker Jack box, or may well have. They are not taught properly with ANY longevity. They as compared to most of the rest of the world except maybe the Germans are decent drivers. Most people in this country think our drivers are bad. They are quite polite and tame to be honest, even in New York. Most of the rest of the world drives like rabid baboons high on coke and meth. That said, this doesn't mean US drivers have a real clue of what they are doing. On the contrary, they surely don't. They are under trained. Period.

    If I were king for a day, I would say that if you want a license you need to go to a real driving school and learn to REALLY operate a vehicle. This means taking school for a couple of months and taking vehicles on the skid pad and obstacle course and driving at speed and testing the limits of the vehicle and learning how to induce and recover form various problems. Real training from real drivers like the Bondurant school which is famous though in my opinion not the very best, just pointing them out as to the proper course intensity. Any Blackwater style driving training. The training must include extreme maneuvering in various vehicles and sizes while under duress.

    My main problem with drivers in this country is they don't really know quite what they are doing, they have a basic gist and that's it. They can past the state tests which accommodate the lowest common denominator. That is inadequate to create a truly safe driving environment. The serious lack of REAL training especially for younger drivers is a primary cause of accidents more than anything. Most people don't know how to truly use and maneuver their vehicles properly. Many start with bad habits and get lots of experience driving with bad habits and get into trouble without ever knowing it until its too late.

    My idea of a proper course would include

    The parts and their function on an automobile in detail.

    The how's and whys of maintenance in detail, with emphasis on tires and their function, how to deal with a blowout, and practice on a skid pad dealing with sudden blowouts concentrating on various vehicles and configurations with special emphasis on steering tire blowouts and trailer blowouts.

    Driving time in various configurations and speeds in unusual attitudes.

    Obstacle course driving at speed.

    Backing through an obstacle course.

    Off highway driving techniques and how to deal with various situations. Practice off road techniques.

    Winter driving techniques. Practice of such.

    High speed driving and maneuvering.

    Emergency driving procedures. On and off highway emergency procedures.

    Defensive driving techniques, and borrowing from the motorcycle crowd offensive driving technique, and when to transition from one technique to another.

    There's more but I think you get the gist.
    I have heard is it difficult and costly to get a license in Germany. Any idiot can get one in the USA. I'm surprised there aren't more accidents.

  10. #190
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    Re: What should be penalty for 20mph+ over limit speeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    The closer to Munich you get the faster the cars are, I would love to take a top of the line Mercedes and see how fast I could truly go.
    It is safer to watch Top Gear but not as fun.

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