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If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do [W:72,96,331

If there was a national vote on equal rights for gays what would you do?


  • Total voters
    133
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do [W:7...

1.)again...TLDR...learn to communicate. How long does I take you to write those silly posts anyway?

32 bans. 0 to 32 in 12 years.

But...the polls!!! Look at the polls!!!

lol thats what i thought!
now with the failed insults whoooo get angry!
translation: you got nothing

PLEASE PLEASE dont stop posting and dodging the questions this is awesome!
FACTS destroy your post again.

let me know when you can answer the building up questions now instead of dodging them

how many states banned it by public vote
why is legislation an indicator of how voting would turn out?
better question, why do you think legislation is a better indicator then public polling about the topic?
why is legislation a good indicator since we have factual evidence that legislation has gone against what public vote as been?

uhm also you said o to 32 in 12 years? please tell me what is in the o column?
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do [W:7...

lol thats what i thought!
now with the failed insults whoooo get angry!
translation: you got nothing

PLEASE PLEASE dont stop posting and dodging the questions this is awesome!
FACTS destroy your post again.

let me know when you can answer the building up questions now instead of dodging them

how many states banned it by public vote
why is legislation an indicator of how voting would turn out?
better question, why do you think legislation is a better indicator then public polling about the topic?
why is legislation a good indicator since we have factual evidence that legislation has gone against what public vote as been?

uhm also you said o to 32 in 12 years? please tell me what is in the o column?
Again...TLDR. But that's still funny as hell you want to keep making these itemized rants and want to claim I'M angry :lamo
0-32 in 12 years. But...the POLLS say...
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do [W:7...

Again...TLDR. But that's still funny as hell you want to keep making these itemized rants and want to claim I'M angry :lamo
0-32 in 12 years. But...the POLLS say...

again you just proved you lied lol
you claim not to read but then talk about my post thats AWESOME!!!

PLEASE PLEASE dont stop posting and dodging the questions this is awesome!
FACTS destroy your post again.

let me know when you can STAY ON TOPIC, answer the building up questions now instead of dodging them

how many states banned it by public vote
why is legislation an indicator of how voting would turn out?
better question, why do you think legislation is a better indicator then public polling about the topic?
why is legislation a good indicator since we have factual evidence that legislation has gone against what public vote as been?

uhm also you said o to 32 in 12 years? please tell me what is in the o column?
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do [W:7...

again you just proved you lied lol
you claim not to read but then talk about my post thats AWESOME!!!

PLEASE PLEASE dont stop posting and dodging the questions this is awesome!
FACTS destroy your post again.

let me know when you can answer the building up questions now instead of dodging them

how many states banned it by public vote
why is legislation an indicator of how voting would turn out?
better question, why do you think legislation is a better indicator then public polling about the topic?
why is legislation a good indicator since we have factual evidence that legislation has gone against what public vote as been?

uhm also you said o to 32 in 12 years? please tell me what is in the o column?
so...we're good...right? 0-32 states in 12 years...but that doesn't REALLY indicate the will of the people. After all...the polls say....
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do [W:7...

so...we're good...right? 0-32 states in 12 years...but that doesn't REALLY indicate the will of the people. After all...the polls say....

nope it factually does not when it comes to public vote, already gave FACTUAL proof of that :)

PLEASE PLEASE dont stop posting and dodging the questions this is awesome!
FACTS destroy your post again.

let me know when you can STAY ON TOPIC, answer the building up questions now instead of dodging them

how many states banned it by public vote
why is legislation an indicator of how voting would turn out?
better question, why do you think legislation is a better indicator then public polling about the topic?
why is legislation a good indicator since we have factual evidence that legislation has gone against what public vote as been?

uhm also you said o to 32 in 12 years? please tell me what is in the 0 column?
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do [W:7...

nope it factually does not when it comes to public vote, already gave FACTUAL proof of that :)

PLEASE PLEASE dont stop posting and dodging the questions this is awesome!
FACTS destroy your post again.

let me know when you can STAY ON TOPIC, answer the building up questions now instead of dodging them

how many states banned it by public vote
why is legislation an indicator of how voting would turn out?
better question, why do you think legislation is a better indicator then public polling about the topic?
why is legislation a good indicator since we have factual evidence that legislation has gone against what public vote as been?

uhm also you said o to 32 in 12 years? please tell me what is in the 0 column?
You should by all means then put it to a national vote.
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do [W:7...

You should by all means then put it to a national vote.

let me know when you can STAY ON TOPIC, answer the building up questions now instead of dodging them

how many states banned it by public vote
why is legislation an indicator of how voting would turn out?
better question, why do you think legislation is a better indicator then public polling about the topic?
why is legislation a good indicator since we have factual evidence that legislation has gone against what public vote as been?

uhm also you said o to 32 in 12 years? please tell me what is in the 0 column?
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72,

Did you even read the title or look at my link?

Are you denying that 30 some states have banned SSM? come on.


Not denying that at all, of course a decade ago 30+ states banned same sex civil marriage.

What you seem to be running away from is your statement that 99% of the states with same sex civil marriage now are a result of judge actions.

That was false. 33% were based on Judicial action, 66% per passed by the peoples legislatures and by the people themselves at the ballot box. But you don't address that and simply say "I was wrong", you deflect to first to Iowa ("Huh? what do you call legislative...As and example activist judges In Iowa approved Gay marriage...") when Iowa was not cited as a legislative passage. And now you are going on about the 30 states that banned it a decade ago.

The undeniable fact is that 2/3rds of the States with same sex civil marriage did not get it because of a judges decision.


>>>>
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

I believe that is right for the most part but not in all cases.

Well you are incorrect. The Constitution does not exist as a "list of rights" it exists as a restrictive covenant on government.

As a matter of fact the Constitution itself says that rights held by the people need not be enumerated in the Constitution.

And while the Constitution does not list marriage as a right, it does state that all citizens of a State are due Due Process and the Equal Protections of the laws.



>>>>
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

If history is any indicator 32 states would vote against it. Thank goodness for judicial activism. You really are better off NOT putting it to a vote...thats a losing proposition.

List of U.S. state constitutional amendments banning same-sex unions by type - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


History isn't necessarily a good indicator of voter actions today.

I always disagreed with the decision to challenge Prop 8 in the courts. In California Prop 22 (2000, Statutory Law) passed at the ballot box with, IIRC, a 23% margin of victory. However just 8 years later Prop 8 (2008, Constitutional Amendment) barely squeaked by where only a 2.5% shift would have changed the outcome. If instead of a court challenged if proponents of SSCM had put it back on the ballot in 2012 it would have passed.

Then there is the case of Maine, they voted at the polls against it in 2009 and in 2012 the voters reversed that decision and SSCM is now legal in Maine.

True there are some people that would never change their vote, but we aren't talking about individuals we are talking about voter demographics which shift - things are not written in stone in the ballot box. Take a look at, IIRC, Alabama. Loving v. Virginia made anti-interracial marriage bans unconstitutional, however it doesn't change the text "on the books" or in various State Constitutions. In 2000 Alabama voted to amend it's Constitution to remove such a ban. The sad thing is that 40% of the vote was to keep the language.



>>>>
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72]

Polls...the fools refuge. Go ahead...put it up for a national vote.
What I am doing is not playing your stupid game. I am posting the facts. From 1998 til current the states have gone from 0-32 laws and constitutional amendments banning gay marriage. In the light of that undeniable fact, your reply is "unuh...thats not what it REALLY means..." Yes...it IS. Without judicial intervention there would be..what...2 out of 50 states that allow gay marriage.

But...but...but the POLLS say.....


You realize there are no provisions under the Federal Constitution or Federal Law for any type of "putting laws up for a national vote", right?


>>>>
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do [W:7...

again...TLDR...learn to communicate. How long does it take you to write those silly posts anyway?

32 bans. 0 to 32 in 12 years.

But...the polls!!! Look at the polls!!!


The great majority of those bans were not over 12 years, they occurred in the 2000-2006 time frame. One or two before that, one or two since. So the votes in a great majority of the states was a decade ago.

Not saying that in those States SSCM would pass now, it probably wouldn't. But a decade ago the margins of victory were 25-76%. By 2008/2009 Prop 8 (CA) and Question 1 (ME) squeaked by where only a 2.5% shift would have changed the outcome. In the elections of 2012 4 states had SSCM on the ballot and it won in all 4.

Time moves on and opinions change.


>>>>
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do [W:7...

You should by all means then put it to a national vote.


Could you cite the Constitutional provisions or section of Federal law that allows any law to be voted on on a national level?

Thank you in advance.


>>>>
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do [W:7...

Could you cite the Constitutional provisions or section of Federal law that allows any law to be voted on on a national level?

Thank you in advance.


>>>>
Take it up with the OP...his idea.
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72,

what is this a list of?

I have my own list :)

Gay marriage is legal in the following countries nationally or in certain areas like us:

Argentina
Australia
Belgium
Brazil
Canada
Denmark
France
Iceland
Mexico
Netherlands:
New Zealand:
Norway
Portugal
South Africa
Spain
Sweden
United Kingdom:
United States:
Uruguay

14 states and DC have equal rights:

California
Connecticut
Delaware
Iowa
Maine
Maryland
Massachusetts
Minnesota
New Hampshire
New York
New Jersey
Rhode Island
Vermont
Washington
19 more are in various stages of fighting or establishing a fight for equal rights

New Mexico – is granting equal rights for now and the SSC is going to decided on this month

Court Case(s) in the works to establish equal rights:
Arkansas
Kentucky
Michigan
North Carolina
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
Utah
Virginia

Court Case(s) and Legislation in the works, which ever wins first:
Arizona
Hawaii
Illinois
Nevada
Ohio


Legislation in the works:
Colorado
Florida
Oregon

just an update because in this short time things have already changed

16 states and DC have equal rights:

California - June 28, 2013
Connecticut - November 12, 2008
Delaware - July 1, 2013
Hawaii - December 2, 2013 effective
Illinois - June 1, 2014 effective
Iowa - April 27, 2009
Maine - December 29, 2012
Maryland - January 1, 2013
Massachusetts - May 17, 2004
Minnesota - August 1, 2013
New Hampshire - January 1, 2010
New Jersey - October 21, 2013
New York - July 24, 2011
Rhode Island - August 1, 2013
Vermont - September 1, 2009
Washington - December 6, 2012

16 more are in various stages of fighting or establishing a fight for equal rights


New Mexico – is granting equal rights for now and the SSC is going to decided on this soon

Court Case(s) in the works to establish equal rights:
Arkansas
Kentucky
Michigan (Feb Trial)
North Carolina
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania (June Trial)
South Carolina
Utah


Court Case(s) and Legislation in the works, which ever wins first:
Arizona
Nevada
Ohio (December 2013 trial)


Legislation in the works:
Colorado
Florida
Oregon

thats 32 states that could have equal rights by 2015 and some much sooner!
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72,

Definitely, homosexuals should never have the right to adopt a child.
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72,

Definitely, homosexuals should never have the right to adopt a child.

do tell, why?
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72,

do tell, why?

Assume you are the govern. (the system)

Every person in this world have the right to have a father and a mother.
You give the right to a gay or lesbian couple to adopt a child.
For example the kid is 5 years old. After 10 years old the kid is 15 and he find himself without the mother (gay couple) or the father (lesbian couple).
What give you the right to remove the right of a child to have both parents. That is not the life they would have choose if they would be able to do so.
You decide for the fate of a child without his permission or desire. (I'm against the adoption of babies at any case, even for hetero couples).
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72,

Assume you are the govern. (the system)

Every person in this world have the right to have a father and a mother.
You give the right to a gay or lesbian couple to adopt a child.
For example the kid is 5 years old. After 10 years old the kid is 15 and he find himself without the mother (gay couple) or the father (lesbian couple).
What give you the right to remove the right of a child to have both parents. That is not the life they would have choose if they would be able to do so.
You decide for the fate of a child without his permission or desire. (I'm against the adoption of babies at any case, even for hetero couples).
The goal is to raise a kid.

Some gay couples can do this as well as any given hetero couple.

Parenting ability is in no way related to sexual orientation.
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72,

1.)Assume you are the govern. (the system)
2.) Every person in this world have the right to have a father and a mother.
3.) You give the right to a gay or lesbian couple to adopt a child.
For example the kid is 5 years old. After 10 years old the kid is 15 and he find himself without the mother (gay couple) or the father (lesbian couple).
What give you the right to remove the right of a child to have both parents. That is not the life they would have choose if they would be able to do so.
You decide for the fate of a child without his permission or desire.
4.) (I'm against the adoption of babies at any case, even for hetero couples).

1.) ok
2.) uhm no the do not but i will read on
3.) well since 2 is factually not true the rest of your post doesn't apply.
4.) this makes even less logical sense because you falsely believe every child has a right to mother and father, its contradictory.
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72,

The goal is to raise a kid.

Some gay couples can do this as well as any given hetero couple.

Parenting ability is in no way related to sexual orientation.

it is related because a male can never make the mother as well as a female can never make the father.
They differ not only from body skin but from the character as well.


1.) ok
2.) uhm no the do not but i will read on
3.) well since 2 is factually not true the rest of your post doesn't apply.
4.) this makes even less logical sense because you falsely believe every child has a right to mother and father, its contradictory.

So you decide for the future of a child even if it may be wrong. The child himself will decide when he grow up if his life was wrong or right.
But the decision took place on a time when he wasn't able to decide.
That child would have wanted to have a mother and a father like every other child do.
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72,

if there was a national vote on gay rights i would... throw a huge fit over some ****wad putting rights up for a national vote.


think about setting that precedent before you even contemplate doing it... it could be your rights put up for a national vote someday.
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72,

So you decide for the future of a child even if it may be wrong. The child himself will decide when he grow up if his life was wrong or right.
But the decision took place on a time when he wasn't able to decide.
That child would have wanted to have a mother and a father like every other child do.


all your opinion and all meaningless


do you have anything factual as to why gays shouldn't be allowed to adopt?
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72,

if there was a national vote on gay rights i would... throw a huge fit over some ****wad putting rights up for a national vote.


think about setting that precedent before you even contemplate doing it... it could be your rights put up for a national vote someday.

well i agree rights are not up to the people thats why equal rights is slow winning across the nation, thats why the "states" issue BS always loses but that was the point of the question nor did i suggest it would be ok.

you are right, it would not.
 
Re: If there was a National Vote on Equal rights for gays, what would you do. [W:72,

all your opinion and all meaningless


do you have anything factual as to why gays shouldn't be allowed to adopt?

simple, they can't make the mother. Isn't that enough?
Can you prove they can?
 
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